Clearly the harsh truth is hard to accept for some Devils fans:
June 29, 2024
Clearly the harsh truth is hard to accept for some Devils fans:
29 comments
Tough love
Everyone just ignoring Marino to Utah for picks huh lol
I’ve seen this said on Reddit and twitter, but just curious, is there anyone official claiming that the Sharks and Flames both specifically rejected Holtz? Or is that based purely off of them receiving other players?
Also, if someone has zero value, I’m not sure why trading them would be the smart move. But that’s a separate issue.
some fans are completely delusional unfortunately.
so far Fitzy was able to do:
– got a good goalie
– kept 10OA a got a freak of nature with 5 year ELC contract basically
– get rid of underperforming players (Marino was actually horrible, his contract wasn’t spectacular and we got him for AHL players and 3rd and we got back 2x seconds), Holtz would still be a big maybe and we don’t have time for this. Same applies to Schmidt (he is not beating Allen, maybe he wouldn’t even beat Malek or Daws)
– cleared cap space, we gonna get most likely Pesce and Dillon, the defense is sorted, looking better defensively and physically. And we have ton of space for getting better offensively too.
– Restock the draft picks for 2025 after losing the 1st rounder for Markstrom. (3x 2nd rounders) overall having 7th picks for the next draft.
To me it looks like a very very job.
Theres good and bad ways to word these things.
He had upsides and potential but they were outweighed by his weaknesses.
Great shot doesn’t mean shit if you can’t skate. Just look at the pedophile that was on this team 8 years ago.
Yeah the more I look at this trade the more it makes sense. Holtz isn’t doing shit here and the goalie room is too crowded. Guess Schmid didn’t impress enough
Cmon man… give credit to Gianni for the tweet at least. Why cut out his name?
Liked Marino, but he was soft and rarely boxed anyone out in the defensive zone and when Dougie went down Marino got tasked with a bigger role and was kind of exposed.
Schmid was the odd man out with Markstrom and Allen being the main guys while Daws, Poulter, Malek and now 2 other goalies selected this draft (hes in my NJD HoF for him saving the season vs the Rangers. Luv you habibi).
Only one that stings a bit is Holtz because he was such a high pick and never got a real shot at playing but still potted 16 while getting 4th line minutes and scrubs as line mates.
I like the Cotter move tho. Heavy hitter and solid 3rd/4th liner who can player center if need be.
There’s always going to be a huge sunk cost fallacy among fans when they see a 7th overall pick get traded for a 4th liner… but that 4th liner is adding more value to the team than the guy lighting it up in the AHL and doing nothing with his multiple NHL chances. Wish Holtz the best and hopefully Vegas is a good fresh start for him.
Speaking of biases, there is a ton of recency bias for Schmid owning the Rangers two years ago but he was objectively horrible last year in both the AHL and NHL
Holtz sucked.
There’s no IQ test to become a fan of any team. Social media just makes it worse since the biggest posters tend towards being emotional rather than rational.
I still maintain I’m not a Holtz evangelist but think he needed better/more coaching after his only full year in the NHL. Being rejected in trades and not selected for worlds after a bad year makes sense. I don’t think he’s a lost cause
‘memba Tedenby, Bergfors, Suglobov, and Urbom
Lmao in chel in franchise mode for me he became a superstar😂😂 obviously he doesn’t actually have that talent irl
Gianni posting in this sub lmfao
* I want to add I have nothing against Holtz & hope he does well in Vegas.
But the reality is Devils are a better hockey team because of this trade.
I mean, you’re right. This truth IS hard for me to accept. His shot is special and I really wanted the rest of him to be good enough.
Where im down on the trade is I still think he might be a lotto ticket even if his extremely likely path is a non-NHLer, and I still think the lotto ticket is still worth more than we got in return.
A 4th liner and a 2025 3rd is basically nothing.
If we tried another year with Holtz and it fails again, then we lose him for nothing, but that’s basically what we got for him now.
When the return is this paltry, I just don’t know why we make the move. Fitz must believe the roster is worse with Holtz on it, which is also tough to swallow.
He’s Daniel Sprong, he’s a fourth liner who will give you 15-20 goals per season. That’s valuable, but he is way higher valued than he’s been
I’m just relieved I don’t have to keep hearing people whine, betch and moan about not giving him ice time next season anymore.
I think the hard part of the trade is just accepting the draft selection was a bust. Holtz has a good shot, but the rest of his game didn’t develop to an nhl level quick enough. Maybe he didn’t show the right attitude toward growing himself as a player either, but he still had lots of time to make it to where he needs to be.
Everyone and their mothers said the devils were the softest team in the league last year. Holtz is one of those guys. Cotter is a big guy who hits a shit load. I’m excited to see a new element brought to these devils. I was thinking devils would go in on Jeannot because he’s only got 1 year left, but cotter is very similar but signed for the minimum and at 2 years. Excellent value to save room for bigger additions.
It’s clear there will be some players added in free agency. Pesce seems obvious with all the smoke being confirmed with shipping out Marino asap. Maybe 2 defenseman added, and likely another middle 6 guy along with resigning Mercer. The money is there after moving Marino first. Fitz wanted to get tougher to play against( and everyone can see that was an issue) and now it’s moving in that direction. Roster may look different than some envisioned, but that’s how it always goes
At least they got rid of him for something. Fitz has been great and some people just don’t understand that
I think they did what they could with the asset. My bigger issue is how did they botch the scouting/development of this kid so badly. Obviously it’s better to not double down on the mistake by trying to force it, but that was still a massive miss. It also makes the fact that we traded Shango for one season of Toffolli hurt even more.
As far as Holtz goes…do I think he’s as valuable as some think because he was drafted 7 OA and scored 15 goals his rookie year? No. Do I think he’s as bad as everything thinks because other teams including the Devs didn’t want him and he has some clear holes in his game. No. Time will tell. Change of scenery does well for some players. For others they just can’t adapt to the NhL and are gone in a few years. Not sure whether Holtz will be the former or the latter. He has a good shot and he got better about getting in front of the net for garbage goals. I did see improvements in his game. But what goes on behind the scenes? None of us know. Maybe he has a bad attitude and dogs practices and shifts. Maybe he doesn’t listen. Those attributes spread throughout the league fast as these players and coaches and managers all know each other and all talk to each other. In the end of the day we need to be better in the bottom six and we got a sandpaper guy who throws hits to bolster the bottom six as opposed to a “skill” player that doesn’t fit the bottom six. Maybe Cassidy and Vegas can make more out of him. Best of luck to Holtz. Now let’s worry about what Cotter can do to improve our fourth line rather than worry about if Holtz can ever live up to 7OA
holtz truthers in shambles rn
Hes 22 and put up16 goals on the 4th line with career minor leaguers in less than 12 mins of ice time. Guys mature alot from early 20s to mid 20s. Idc what anyone says. This was a dumb trade. Trading him is fine but getting a 3rd/4th line center is laughable. He will score 30+ goals for Vegas within the next few yrs like govich in Calgary
Holtz value was nothing as we see in this trade. We got back a plug and play 4th liner at league min. Holtz on the third line with minimal ice time is worth more than that to the devils next season and his value could potentially rebound. If it doesn’t he’s still 22 just send him to the AHL, if he gets picked up on waivers w.e same as trading him for nothing.
Cotter put up his numbers next to stone, Karlsson, stephensen, and roy. He was on their 3rd line and got benched for the playoffs in back to back seasons.
Summary:
If I was looking at the two players I would take Cotter. It’s really that simple.
(and so would every GM in the NHL because if they valued Holtz more then they’d have him on their team right now)
And they both play similar minutes and same lines (actually you can argue Holtz had way more opportunity as he got time on lines 1-3 during the season) so no excuse as to minutes holding Holtz back in points in comparison to Cotter, Cotter has around the same points and same minutes while doing WAY more to help his team win.
Holtz: ~30 point guy
Can’t play defence at all
Doesn’t hit
Soft in all areas of the ice
Can’t play any important minutes
Doesn’t energize the team in any way
—————————————————————————-
Cotter: ~ 30 point guy
233 hits last season (17th in the entire NHL)
Workhorse
High energy
Wins puck battles all the time
Great skater
He was the hot chick everyone wanted to date, but once you actually date her, so many flaws.
29 comments
Tough love
Everyone just ignoring Marino to Utah for picks huh lol
I’ve seen this said on Reddit and twitter, but just curious, is there anyone official claiming that the Sharks and Flames both specifically rejected Holtz? Or is that based purely off of them receiving other players?
Also, if someone has zero value, I’m not sure why trading them would be the smart move. But that’s a separate issue.
some fans are completely delusional unfortunately.
so far Fitzy was able to do:
– got a good goalie
– kept 10OA a got a freak of nature with 5 year ELC contract basically
– get rid of underperforming players (Marino was actually horrible, his contract wasn’t spectacular and we got him for AHL players and 3rd and we got back 2x seconds), Holtz would still be a big maybe and we don’t have time for this. Same applies to Schmidt (he is not beating Allen, maybe he wouldn’t even beat Malek or Daws)
– cleared cap space, we gonna get most likely Pesce and Dillon, the defense is sorted, looking better defensively and physically. And we have ton of space for getting better offensively too.
– Restock the draft picks for 2025 after losing the 1st rounder for Markstrom. (3x 2nd rounders) overall having 7th picks for the next draft.
To me it looks like a very very job.
Theres good and bad ways to word these things.
He had upsides and potential but they were outweighed by his weaknesses.
Great shot doesn’t mean shit if you can’t skate. Just look at the pedophile that was on this team 8 years ago.
Yeah the more I look at this trade the more it makes sense. Holtz isn’t doing shit here and the goalie room is too crowded. Guess Schmid didn’t impress enough
Cmon man… give credit to Gianni for the tweet at least. Why cut out his name?
Liked Marino, but he was soft and rarely boxed anyone out in the defensive zone and when Dougie went down Marino got tasked with a bigger role and was kind of exposed.
Schmid was the odd man out with Markstrom and Allen being the main guys while Daws, Poulter, Malek and now 2 other goalies selected this draft (hes in my NJD HoF for him saving the season vs the Rangers. Luv you habibi).
Only one that stings a bit is Holtz because he was such a high pick and never got a real shot at playing but still potted 16 while getting 4th line minutes and scrubs as line mates.
I like the Cotter move tho. Heavy hitter and solid 3rd/4th liner who can player center if need be.
There’s always going to be a huge sunk cost fallacy among fans when they see a 7th overall pick get traded for a 4th liner… but that 4th liner is adding more value to the team than the guy lighting it up in the AHL and doing nothing with his multiple NHL chances. Wish Holtz the best and hopefully Vegas is a good fresh start for him.
Speaking of biases, there is a ton of recency bias for Schmid owning the Rangers two years ago but he was objectively horrible last year in both the AHL and NHL
Holtz sucked.
There’s no IQ test to become a fan of any team. Social media just makes it worse since the biggest posters tend towards being emotional rather than rational.
I still maintain I’m not a Holtz evangelist but think he needed better/more coaching after his only full year in the NHL. Being rejected in trades and not selected for worlds after a bad year makes sense. I don’t think he’s a lost cause
‘memba Tedenby, Bergfors, Suglobov, and Urbom
Lmao in chel in franchise mode for me he became a superstar😂😂 obviously he doesn’t actually have that talent irl
Gianni posting in this sub lmfao
* I want to add I have nothing against Holtz & hope he does well in Vegas.
But the reality is Devils are a better hockey team because of this trade.
I mean, you’re right. This truth IS hard for me to accept. His shot is special and I really wanted the rest of him to be good enough.
Where im down on the trade is I still think he might be a lotto ticket even if his extremely likely path is a non-NHLer, and I still think the lotto ticket is still worth more than we got in return.
A 4th liner and a 2025 3rd is basically nothing.
If we tried another year with Holtz and it fails again, then we lose him for nothing, but that’s basically what we got for him now.
When the return is this paltry, I just don’t know why we make the move. Fitz must believe the roster is worse with Holtz on it, which is also tough to swallow.
He’s Daniel Sprong, he’s a fourth liner who will give you 15-20 goals per season. That’s valuable, but he is way higher valued than he’s been
I’m just relieved I don’t have to keep hearing people whine, betch and moan about not giving him ice time next season anymore.
I think the hard part of the trade is just accepting the draft selection was a bust. Holtz has a good shot, but the rest of his game didn’t develop to an nhl level quick enough. Maybe he didn’t show the right attitude toward growing himself as a player either, but he still had lots of time to make it to where he needs to be.
Everyone and their mothers said the devils were the softest team in the league last year. Holtz is one of those guys. Cotter is a big guy who hits a shit load. I’m excited to see a new element brought to these devils. I was thinking devils would go in on Jeannot because he’s only got 1 year left, but cotter is very similar but signed for the minimum and at 2 years. Excellent value to save room for bigger additions.
It’s clear there will be some players added in free agency. Pesce seems obvious with all the smoke being confirmed with shipping out Marino asap. Maybe 2 defenseman added, and likely another middle 6 guy along with resigning Mercer. The money is there after moving Marino first. Fitz wanted to get tougher to play against( and everyone can see that was an issue) and now it’s moving in that direction. Roster may look different than some envisioned, but that’s how it always goes
At least they got rid of him for something. Fitz has been great and some people just don’t understand that
I think they did what they could with the asset. My bigger issue is how did they botch the scouting/development of this kid so badly. Obviously it’s better to not double down on the mistake by trying to force it, but that was still a massive miss. It also makes the fact that we traded Shango for one season of Toffolli hurt even more.
As far as Holtz goes…do I think he’s as valuable as some think because he was drafted 7 OA and scored 15 goals his rookie year? No. Do I think he’s as bad as everything thinks because other teams
including the Devs didn’t want him and he has some clear holes in his game. No. Time will tell. Change of scenery does well for some players. For others they just can’t adapt to the NhL and are gone in a few years. Not sure whether Holtz will be the former or the latter. He has a good shot and he got better about getting in front of the net for garbage goals. I did see improvements in his game. But what goes on behind the scenes? None of us know. Maybe he has a bad attitude and dogs practices and shifts. Maybe he doesn’t listen. Those attributes spread throughout the league fast as these players and coaches and managers all know each other and all talk to each other. In the end of the day we need to be better in the bottom six and we got a sandpaper guy who throws hits to bolster the bottom six as opposed to a “skill” player that doesn’t fit the bottom six. Maybe Cassidy and Vegas can make more out of him. Best of luck to Holtz. Now let’s worry about what Cotter can do to improve our fourth line rather than worry about if Holtz can ever live up to 7OA
holtz truthers in shambles rn
Hes 22 and put up16 goals on the 4th line with career minor leaguers in less than 12 mins of ice time. Guys mature alot from early 20s to mid 20s. Idc what anyone says. This was a dumb trade. Trading him is fine but getting a 3rd/4th line center is laughable. He will score 30+ goals for Vegas within the next few yrs like govich in Calgary
Holtz value was nothing as we see in this trade. We got back a plug and play 4th liner at league min. Holtz on the third line with minimal ice time is worth more than that to the devils next season and his value could potentially rebound. If it doesn’t he’s still 22 just send him to the AHL, if he gets picked up on waivers w.e same as trading him for nothing.
Cotter put up his numbers next to stone, Karlsson, stephensen, and roy. He was on their 3rd line and got benched for the playoffs in back to back seasons.
Summary:
If I was looking at the two players I would take Cotter. It’s really that simple.
(and so would every GM in the NHL because if they valued Holtz more then they’d have him on their team right now)
And they both play similar minutes and same lines (actually you can argue Holtz had way more opportunity as he got time on lines 1-3 during the season) so no excuse as to minutes holding Holtz back in points in comparison to Cotter, Cotter has around the same points and same minutes while doing WAY more to help his team win.
Holtz:
~30 point guy
Can’t play defence at all
Doesn’t hit
Soft in all areas of the ice
Can’t play any important minutes
Doesn’t energize the team in any way
—————————————————————————-
Cotter:
~ 30 point guy
233 hits last season (17th in the entire NHL)
Workhorse
High energy
Wins puck battles all the time
Great skater
He was the hot chick everyone wanted to date, but once you actually date her, so many flaws.