Taking stock of Indiana Pacers free agency – importance of Pascal Siakam deal + Toppin and Wiseman

Taking stock of Indiana Pacers free agency – importance of Pascal Siakam deal + Toppin and Wiseman

let’s take stock of the Pacers team as free agency progresses Pascal cakam is a huge deal why there’s going to be so many contending Windows within the seak contract plus Obi toppen makes a ton of sense James wisman could he follow the trajectory of recent Pacers second draft guys we’ll get to all that today with Derek Schultz on lockon Pacers podcast you are locked on Pacers your daily Indiana Pacers podcast part of the locked on podcast Network your team every day hey what up y’all happy I don’t know what day this is coming out and welcome into another edition of the lockon Pacers podcast where we of course talk about the Indiana Pacers as always my name’s Tony East I cover the team for Forbes and Si and today more free agency discussion on what the Pacers have done Pascal sakam Obby top and James wisman in where is this team now where are they headed what could the next few years look like because I don’t think in the offseason Shuffle between the finals and the draft and the many things that had to be talked about from last season there was enough coverage including for me about Pascal seaka reigning and how big of a deal that was for the Pacers Derk Schultz from query and Schultz and the ibj and occasionally 1075 the fans GNA join us today to talk all things Pacer free agency sakam the upcoming foure stretch with him under contract the top in deal the wisman deal what comes next next for the Pacers in their team building planning we get to all of it with Derrick Schultz let’s just hop right in the string of guests named Derek continues two in a row as Derek Schultz is here from query and Schultz formerly of many places here in India and a guy I talked to on the ride with jmv this morning despite him not being jmb it’s Derek Schultz of many places of Lo of note locally Derek how are you are you enjoying your week of the fourth free agency is fun even though the Pacers have been quieter mummed because their big stuff happened way earlier yeah absolutely Fourth of July this almost feels like Thanksgiving in the summer because it’s on a Thursday and like everybody’s kind of punting this week even if you’re working you’re not really working this week so those are my favorite kind of weeks uh I do have a Derek fun fact for you Tony to start the show um I think it I think it means ruler like R you l r like yeah those that person who at least I had a card on my desk that my mom got me and it said Derek and it translates to ruler and it sat on my desk like throughout my childhood so I have no idea if that’s just completely made up or what but um I believe that’s what the the name Derek means what why do you think Derek has somehow been a name that is spelled so differently by so many people like two different Dereks on the Mavs and the finals you’re a third different how it’s it’s not even that complicated of a name no I mean it’s it’s clearly it’s d r k right and I don’t know how so many people get it wrong you’re right it really is amazing the d r r i c k i that one that one I hated I’ve gone to coffee shops before where it’s been like deer i k which I think is how Rick Smith’s kid spelled his name and then like d Eck uh all kinds of weird stuff man Stu I only know one spelling of Pascal and that’s actually where I want to start with you today because look he was the first signing right free agency was different this year where you could sign your own guys after the finals two days later July 19th SE yakum happens and in that time there was a lot of Celtics chatter there was a lot of the draft is coming chatter and I’m not gonna say it got swept under because it got talked about for days it was a Max contract but I almost feel like it didn’t get enough coverage that the Pacers signed the best unrestricted for agent they’ve ever signed and I get that he was like incumbent to their team so it wasn’t so stunning and they probably don’t make the with very good feelings that they keep him but like I almost feel like we glossed over that too fast and I’m curious a if you agree and B why you think that is because he’s incredible like that he he alone is is their timeline now as he him and Halbert on the team they’re going for it for the next four years yeah it’s just I think the simple answer is it’s just boring to resign your own guys people want the shiny new toy right they want they want they want somebody else because whenever you go to YouTube and you type in somebody else’s highlights and you’re not a fan of that Team all you you see is the good stuff and you’re like damn like this is great and then you know when you don’t follow them all the time and see them every night then then you don’t know some of the the bad stuff and and I think some Pacers fans saw some of the good some of the bad um and some of the in between with Pascal yakum over the last couple of months but yeah I I mean I agree with you um this was the Big Splash signing uh we we had talked about and and the complaint had been that the Pacers uh they aren’t invested and they don’t care enough and they don’t spend enough and and here they are now with two guys basically with max level deals and and now you don’t hear those complaints I guess as much anymore but what I love about sakam is the fact that it’s not sexy um and and you just you know what you’re getting I think with him um now year four of that deal might be a little bit different than year one but I think at least if if you talk about like the next two years you know you can kind of break the Pacers window into many windows and I think right now they’ve got like a two-year window with with this group and and seum being the same player that he’s been and and knowing what you’re getting there and somebody that’s reliable and fits this team like a glove and can be a really high caliber player and can be uh leaned on when you need to lean on him and and he can come through for you like he did several times like in in game two in Milwaukee and and some other times during the playoffs this year moments of the knck series where he just ate them up and he was the best player on the floor at times um so there’s a lot to like about the seak deal I think there’s just something unsexy about bringing back your own guy it doesn’t it doesn’t feel like a new move or a splash move even if it is a splash move yeah it is a splash I get what you’re saying it is a splash move even though it isn’t because all these people have said and they’re they’re a little bit right to say this like oh the Knicks got Mikel Bridges and the Sixers upgraded too it’s like they’re passing the Pacers I’m like yeah cuz the Pacers just passed them like F four or five months ago when they traded for this guy that they just gave a four-year Max contract to and maybe you could say injuries were a factor they definitely were but like they’re very good to have him like in the playoffs if a team did not have a great defender to put on him on any possession they were screwed the Knicks as soon as they lost OG could not slow down the Pacers they lost four out of five the Bucks had no answer so much that they had to send two to him or had to guard Miles Turner with somebody who couldn’t guard Miles Turner like if you could be that guy in the postseason I don’t care like the regular season matters but like in the playoffs are you kidding like that is their whole rubric of building a team right now is building guys who are good there and and I mean again I don’t think they make the trade without feeling exceedingly good about their chances of keeping him but to me the fact that he is and I I I just said this but I’m curious if you agree best free agent they’ve ever signed yeah I mean David West is second but I I don’t think there’s anyone else you could even AR even if it’s a guy they already had like that is still that still matters I think I I mean yeah for as far as like a guy that was about to hit unrestricted free agency yeah for sure right um because they’ve had you know like you know extending Paul George after the first the rookie deal um things like that but um yeah I I mean I would agree with certainly he’s a better player you no offense to David West but certainly he’s a better player than David West I would think I think David West is the only unrestricted guy who had an All-Star appearance before this I I I might be wrong about that but I believe that’s true yeah I mean that that doesn’t actually surprise me so so yeah I would put him right there and and I and I get what fans are saying about New York and about Philly but look uh Philly has grabbed a lot of headlines in a lot of July recently and they’ve made the Conference Finals once this Century so yeah you know um if it was about winning in July then the Sixers would have a little bit more to show for it than basically nothing I mean they’ve been you know they they’ve been a clear glass ceiling team for as much as people complain about the Pacers having go out ceiling go look at Philly in the last basically 30 years and and what they’ve done in the in the NBA Playoffs um and and I I think even if you want to nudge the Knicks ahead or you want to nudge the Sixers ahead I think the margins are pretty thin honestly um I think the East and and the top of the East is you know if you want to put Boston on the very top and and put a gap in between them I have no problem doing that that’s how good they were I mean this was a a really impressive postseason run and season that they had this year but I don’t I don’t view it as like some sort of thing where the Pacers woke up on July 1 and suddenly they’re like the six team in the East and they’re two tiers below the Knicks and and the Sixers like that I mean if you want to argue that they’re fourth or fifth then fine I I think you can make that argument I’m not GNA fight you about it but I don’t think that anything that anybody else did in the East makes them cleerly that much better than where where the Pacers are if we’re to expect a healthy productive SE yakum which is what I expect Hal Burton to continue to grow and the rest of this team you know nard to get better and and Ben mathin to get better and maybe there’s something there with jarus Walker I mean there’s a lot of um potential uh still untapped for this Pacers team as well if I would make the two-tier argument it would be tier one is the Celtics tier two is nobody because there’s a huge gap and then there’s tier three uh but I would not you know do that with anybody else so yeah I agree with a lot of that and I think the other interesting thing you said that I I want to get into it this is I I wondered with SE yakum I mostly thought it’d be a longer deal but he he’s 30 right if he would do like a two plus one right player option after two years get back out there with 10 years of service as a 32- year old and see where that goes four years is a long time right halberton has five like if you go back four years ago to the Pacers roster I believe four years ago today they had uh just hired borren about then um you know that level of Team like that’s a that’s a long time right in the NBA and granted that means a lot of things can change but I think an important part of what you said is they’re going to go through kind of many eras and I think having him for a long time allows you to do that knowing you have the runway to okay let’s see what the Halbert and seak young but also good players team is okay it’s this level okay let’s get another good player okay what’s that team and then you’re getting close to the end but you might have ammo to get another good player like it all just kind of makes things easier when you have a long Runway so to have a great player who’s top whatever 2530 in the league for that long is massive and I I didn’t I personally only did I I feel like I didn’t cover it enough like it is a huge deal that that happened yeah I mean I I think and and this is easier said than done I think you kind of want to model with what Boston’s done where I know they’ve only won only won one Championship but look how long that Runway I don’t know why there’s balloons going W that was awesome just because I did only one Championship is that did I sound activate say congratulations is that what it was oh maybe I don’t know what that was I’ve heard about that on FaceTime before that was awesome yeah I I I don’t know what triggered that um but anyway um I think that’s what you want where it’s it’s been a lot of mini Windows where that team has kind of evolved and changed and yeah you’ve you’ve you know Tatum and brown have kind of remained the constant right but the rest of the you know Marcus Smart and and Derek white and you know it’s changed um and I think that’s how you hope the Pacers can be here with with halberton where he’s still young and growing and you still think that he can be a top Echelon top 10 level NBA player and so if you think that he’s got a five or six year window of being that then that creates some several mini windows and I I think SE yakum fits into that first window hey guys short little break here so we could talk about game time and authorized ticket Marketplace of Major League Baseball who makes getting tickets faster and easier price in the game time app actually go down the closer it gets to the first pitch with killer last deals all in prices view receipt and their lowest price guarantee game time takes the guest where out of buying tickets to sporting events including MLB games this summer I love game time for so many things all of their features work well and are exactly what I want when I’m buying a ticket to a game you can see the view from your seat so you know exactly what your view is going to look like when you’re there and you’re sitting in your seat I use it to go to the barlay center last summer and it was spot on you know you’re getting the lowest price because they have the game time guarantee which means they will credit you 110% of the price difference if you find a cheaper ticket in the same section Row for Less um the price you see is the price you get the deals are fantastic uh it’s really easy to do everything they have an event cancellation protection they have job loss protection everything you can want in a ticket buying app game time has it I should know I used it so download the game time app create an account and use the code locked on NBA you’ll get $20 off your first purchase how about that terms apply but again create an account redeem the code locked NBA for $20 off download game time today last minut of tickets lowest price guaranteed the Celtics comp is fascinating because what Chad Buchanan talked about partially in his exit interview was looking back the last two champs the Celtics and Nuggets now they added like peace they they had a core thing and they were like okay our stars star Our Stars are awesome and they added he said Peace by piece right so for Denver it was like oh let’s go get Aaron Gordon oh let’s go get kcp oh let you know and they just kept they draft him like a porter like they just kept getting the right guys to fit around jic and make that team hum and got some bench pieces too in the Celtics it was brown and Tatum and then oh they got Al Horford oh they got Derek white oh they got like they kept going one at a time and I kind of feel like with Halbert and SE yakum is the first one of those maybe you could say that Turner was already there too and then they’re up to three of those now and they they keep going but you have to get the first one and be good enough to prove the proof of concept that the team is what it is and that the player fits right that mattered a great deal in Denver like Gary Harris is great and fits on any team because he can shoot and guard but kcp was a way better fit at the two for them right among many other things you could say about that team Aaron Gordon was a way better fit than their previous power forwards they had like Paul Milsap so that that makes a lot of sense to me and now knowing they have a group that fits like who they’re guaranteed to me to be a top five offensive team next year and I think that is in large part because of halberton but also because of seak like they’re gonna have 48 minutes of star power all the time next year and next couple years yeah and and something else that I think we you know you’re we’re on the subject of overlooking and um things right and and not talking about them enough but I think you really just saw it in the playoffs I mean one of the big difference makers um certainly in the Knick series um but also against Milwaukee was the second unit and and and what they brought to the table and you know what McConnell and top and did and both of those guys with top and Obie resigning and McConnell potentially getting extended um but he’s under contract regardless um coming back and and you know and and Ben Shepard um making a role for Isaiah Jackson making a role for himself I mean you know we didn’t know what what he was going to be uh his his role was very much up in the air as recently as last year so um I think that’s something else to kind of add into this I mean you know the Pacers being a true title Contender of course it’s going to fall on the shoulders of halberton continuing to ascend and somebody else like maen or Walker and neard kind of taking that next step and becoming like a a fringe All-Star or or All-Star level player but I I think the Pacers can also fall back on their bench um because you know a lot of teams like Phoenix let’s say who you know have all these big big three and all of that and then you know you kind of look at the rest of your roster and you’re like you know the Pacers at least have a roster that I I think can be the Envy of the league as far as um depth and roles and and a bunch of guys who can bring something positive to the table so what do you think of how this deal that he just signed will age right I think it’s very fair to wonder what 34y old Pascal sakam will look like as a player and what you know how his deal will kind of look at the time and I I’m not gonna write like I think he’ll age pretty well he does play with a lot of finesse I would go back and I have to back in 2021 2020 I can’t remember age 30 Mike Conley signs his 4year 140 extension and everybody goes oh man the Bucks are going to hate that when he’s 34 this Deal’s gonna suck like their Windows really short and it was they won a championship and hav it been his good sense and then he was still so good at 34 he got another deal that was just as big from the Boston Celtics and that doesn’t always happen obviously if it always happened every 30-year-old every team would be proud to pay and not care but like it’s not it’s not to like when the second Jus signed that second one I was like I’m going to talk about this because again if that was every example it wouldn’t be interesting but it’s not like unfathomable to me that he could hit 34 and still be this good I don’t expect it to be clear IID put that as not the odds on favorite but like I’m very curious how this contract ages and how you think it will go for him yeah I mean I think to me this deal is still worth it as long as SE yakum is the same player that he’s been the last couple of years for half the deal if they could get two years of the last three four years of Pascal sakam then that that makes the deal success to me but he doesn’t you know Tony it’s tough to know right because what if there’s an injury somewhere along the way or you know whatever else he doesn’t strike me as somebody that leans heavily into his athleticism necessarily like you know sometimes sometimes the guys that age poorly are the ones that really rely on traits like you know I don’t know quickness or um you know explosiveness or whatever else you know SE yakum doesn’t strike me as somebody even though he is obviously a very gifted athlete that leans too much into that um you know it’s kind of crafty I could see him Reinventing himself maybe later in his career and and still being an effective player um shooting Wise It’s you know it’s okay you know some guys have been able to hold on longer I think because they’ve been able to shoot the ball really well um but yeah to me if if they can get to very good years out of Pascal cakam then that makes it even if year four is a disaster it’s an expiring deal on you know year four and it’s not I I think the key to that deal was avoiding a fifth year um with it being four I I’m I’m okay with it um I I don’t see it as being some sort of a disaster scenario Albatross level contract I would have done five as the Pacers but I I would have not felt as good about it and certainly they’re happy with for I’m sure um and I agree so first of all I agree with you that if you get two years of what just happened out of him great because it’s not like it’s GNA be two years of that and the theer he just sucks like it’ll just be like a little fine you know if you look at the big deals in the NBA right now that just suck like they awful contracts oh my gosh his team is screwed like Bradley Beal obviously people talk about his deal all the time right he uh first of all is older uh than se yakum he is 31 and he gets hurt all the time right he doesn’t play he the last time he played more than 60 games was 20189 when he was an All-Star right the next contract that I would say is just truly awful for a great player you get down to the range of like Zack LaVine and Ben Simmons Ben Simmons obviously injured all the time LaVine had some healthy years in the past but guess what he too outside of the year he played 77 games last year has been injured all the time so for me with zakum the quality matters but for this deal to look fine it is just playing if he plays 65 70 plus games three of the four years or more it’s going to look great and the Pacers will have success because they’ll have him and Halbert on the team I think it’s kind of that simple even though it’s a little boring yeah I I think I I I remember I went back and looked at this when I I did a column for the ibj about it but out side of the the bubble and covid year so the 20 and then the 21 Seasons I I think he’d only missed like combined 14 games in the other six seasons that he played uh you know he he he plays a lot uh and he’s he’s knock on wood right injuries are what they are they they could come at any time and I don’t want to be like you know God Tony and and second Derek really cursed Pascal seak that one time on lockon pod um you know I I hope that we don’t have to wear that those shackles if if something terrible happens to se yakum this season but yeah I agree with you um his his reliability um is is another factor that that comes to play I I just he doesn’t strike me as somebody that is going to just completely fall off a cliff so if you can get two good years and then he can still be a a perfectly competent NBA starter even an overpaid one uh for year three and year four of that deal I I think you can more than happily live with that if you’re the rers I agree um to to get it specific he played this is the second year of his career so 2017 he played 81 games then 80 then the two Co years then 6871 and then 80 last year it’s if that Trend continues right bers will take that every time can I offer one more player comp who’s older who just turned 34 in May who also just signed a massive contract Paul George an next Pacer that many know his game fairly well right and uh he only on his last four seasons from age 30 to 33 was an All-Star three times what a bum right so um again I’m not saying Pascal sakam will age well he could very well not right you never know I could pull up plenty of examples I already talked about Bradley be of guys who may not age particularly gracefully from age 30 to 34 but I think in the Modern Trend of NBA Health it’s reasonable to expect him to play good enough to make it worth it especially the first years and to play well enough that they’ll have a nice Rosy feeling about the first couple years of the halber sakam Duo Derek it’s not just Pascal sakam who has uh re-up or upped with the Pacers this summer 2022 Lottery is the Pacers it’s theirs forever Kevin Pritchard is laughing at tweets about his ability to acquire 2020 lottery picks now Obby Topp and James wisman in the mix I think the most fascinating part of this Pacers era I mean they have great players that’s obviously fascinating is their ability to nail this kind of thing get a guy from another team who’s not being used as much as they think he should be Aaron NE Smith Jordan wara Obi toppen Jaylen Smith play them more they’ll be better and that has oh I just spilled water all over my lap that has happened constantly in the last couple seasons for the Pacers and so toppen I think is a success story there they made his shooting way better but I am fascinated to see one if can keep that up and if toppen can keep getting better because ni Smith in his second year and Smith in his second year with the Pacers took an even bigger leap and two what James wisman can look like because I think that has been kind of the defining trait of how the Pacers are where they are and I’ll be very curious to see if they can keep it up yeah they have had a knack for that um and you know topping a year ago the Knicks gave him up for two twos right I mean c yes he was never a he was never a fit there that was always kind of an odd marriage I don’t know why they drafted him in the first place because it just it it never seemed to make sense where at all he obviously fit the Pacers like a glove um I I had a buddy of mine um as some know I I grew up back east and uh in and around a lot of Nicks fans and and actually myself grew up a Nicks fan and um a buddy of mine who is still a big Nicks fan follows him all the time and he was he’s always been convinced that Obby toppen is is basically like Prime Blake Griffin reincarnated and somebody just need to unlock him and he was convinced that the Pacers were going to do that and I tried to temper his expectations um but I was kind of he was high man on top and I was low man on top and and I think what he ended up being was somewhere in the middle like I I really thought that this was just a just a guy I thought this was like a better version of Gerald Green like I thought he was he he could jump he can dunk and and he doesn’t bring anything else to the table and I thought maybe he can get out on run outs and things like that and have some nice alley oops which he certainly did this season but yeah his three-point shooting was impressive and you know 11 games and double figures in the playoffs I mean he was a key player for them yeah um I was really impressed by Obi toppin I’m glad that they’re bringing him back um I I don’t know like ceiling wise I mean he’s he’s still only 26 so there there is still room I I would like to see him be a little bit more of a competent Defender and I don’t see any reason why he can’t improve that a little bit but I think for the most part if if this is what toppen is you know a guy that can be a reliable three-point shooter change it up guy off the bench and really fit in well into a team that likes to get up and down then then great um you know at this point I know people complain about the money but 15 million is about the going rate for a player of his caliber um just like I mean we’re starting if you’re an NBA starter and you’re good unless you’re nard and you’re on the ultimate bargain deal basically the Baseline is 20 mil right you know 20 mil for a starting level player um so I’m fine with with that deal um I think with wisman I I’ll say this about wisman um n Smith it’s it’s not that the Celtics like gave up on him right it was that they just didn’t really have room at the end um wisan is more of like a straight I mean you tell me if you disagree this is kind of more of a straight like Reclamation project no um I think yeah yeah I think so he had some better moments this last year with Detroit but yeah it’s uh he’s got some work to do for sure yeah he’s 23 but you know the misnomer is that you can only be well he’s only 23 and then suddenly he’s only 24 and then he’s only 25 and then he’s out of the league for two years and you’re like the age doesn’t matter you know it’s not a given that a young player is just magically gonna get better even with great coaching and great fit and all that so maybe maybe there’s nothing there with wisman but um I don’t see any harm in taking a flyer on your Backup backup big right if wiseman’s terrible who cares um he he’s not expected to play a large role if any role at all for you with where they are right now I’m sure they want to give him a look and give him some run out there on the court um but I I I’m intrigued to see if there is something there that that we haven’t seen even though um what we’ve seen so far has certainly not been great yeah so toppen is like the the face of the reclamations to me not because he was like the worst player when they got him but because he’s the guy that of the players they acquired I would say I had the least faith in him becoming a very good shooter right I guess Jaylen Smith but all they’ve all gotten better at lots of stuff but toppen and N Smith and Jaylen Smith War a kind of he was already a good shooter like all them could shoot the second they got here at least not right away but like eventually they were over 40% from three like n Smith and Smith were leading the league at some point last season that’s massive especially on this team that’s gonna let you shoot if you’re on the floor and so that’s one thing that I think is different with wisman is that no way I I see that guy coming to Indiana and just taking threes you know Isaiah Jackson does not shoot threes Wiseman has taken in his whole career 63s and almost two-thirds of them were in his rookie season with the Warriors and he was playing all the time so on one hand I’ll get to Obie in a second I I think they they have shown that they can make these guys who have not found the right home yet improve on the other hand the thing that has helped them the most with that specifically is less attainable for wisman specifically with Obi I was like you like I kind of think this guy’s just GNA like this is a good fit for the Pacers it made sense to acquire him but like if he’s just a runner and a dunker like great transition fit that’ll be fun when he could shoot and his rebounding was a little better than I expected that made him a good fit what made him an obvious keep to me and you T you talked about the bench in the postseason is when he was a good fit without Tyrese Halbert on the floor right because that’s what the pitch was it was like oh this guy with halbert’s goingon to be crazy like Halbert and compared them on on Twitter to Tyreek Hill and Patrick homes like the second it got rumored they were signing him right they did that that proom together and then he came to the team and they did fit well but once when he was good with McConnell and that group specifically it’s like okay there’s such an obvious role for this player because he fits no matter who he’s with and he can shoot great play him all the time and so no brainer to keep him to me that was a good move wiseman’s going to be more interesting he’s gonna play there’s Center the center position there’s injuries all the time so he’ll have to hit the floor at some point right what can he do can he go through what Isaiah Jackson went through literally last year where he he still made he still fouled but they weren’t dumb fouls nearly as often right and his finishing in the paint was way better and his turnover rate went down that’s gonna be one of Wis men’s biggest things their development of him as a second draft guy is going to be fascinating in free agency or not free agency from free agency onward now yeah and and again it’s it’s house money um you know IID asked you earlier today on the radio you know given the Pacers where they are with their cap constraints I mean we’re assuming this is like a minimum deal right has to be almost I don’t know that but I mean a minimum deal for a 23y old former five-star all World recruit number two overall pick who has been given up on now by two different teams and you’re asking him to play eight minutes a night maybe in in a maximum situation you know I right sure why not um I I think when you take flyers on guys and then you’re giving them uh you’re relying on them a lot you’re giving them expanded roles I I think that that’s where you can get burnt because you know somebody somebody was tweeting me today and they’re like well like Evan Turner and and uh Tyreek Evans and Andrew Bonham like the Pacers were asking a lot of of some of those guys certainly Evans and andh when they brought him in and and they’re not doing that here with wisman so if if it’s a problem then he’s gone if he can’t play then he’s gone such is life for minimum players I’m curious how much of his deal will be guaranteed I still haven’t been able to yeah nail down the details but okay here we are same team as same top 13 as last 12 let me same top 12 as last year I believe now as the dust has settled I’m double checking now with the two new additions as of us talking this could change by the time this is published being Johnny Fury and James wisman what’s next for these guys do you think that this is enough to be just as good and if so what would you think is the next here’s where the Pacers go from here kind of roster thing yeah just as good as a tough one because I I think to just expect this team to run it back and then automatically be in the Conference Finals again is uh is asking a lot um because as good as they were they certainly caught some breaks last year and and as we mentioned New York and Philly and and some of these other teams have have gotten better and there’s going to be I I would guess more growth from Orlando um you know Cleveland is kind of running it back and and Cleveland is a good team so you know there are a couple and and then Boston obviously is is the is the one that everybody is is chasing um to me it’s just it’s all about the Improvement coming within from the uh the last two draft classes uh I think it’s it’s the group of nard mathine jarus Walker and and what you’re GNA get from all those guys and and hopefully to me Tony I I think it’s going to take a leap from one of them to become an an All-Star level player and be the second guy you know I ideally um Matan becomes so good that he he becomes the second guy and bumps seak to the third guy then you’ve got a really good third guy in SE yakum instead of even relying him to be a number two guy um but I I think that’s what it’s going to take for them to be uh a true Contender um I understand everyone’s apprehension with um you know what they did and you know is this the 21 Hawks all over again or you know you know these passs aren’t always linear right it’s not always you you you move forward and the Pacers the last three years they’ve moved forward right they won 10 more games they won 12 more games they um you know made the Conference Finals made the playoffs which is all all we I really wanted them to do was make the playoffs and be competitive in a first- round series and of course they they well overshot those expectations um with with what they were able to do in April and May but I I think it’s going to take a significant leap from one of their young players um they’ve made the big deals that they’re going to make at least in this window if we’re breaking it into this two-year window I I think they’ve made the Big Splash moves that going to make you know they have Halton as the franchise pillar they they they traded for and resigned seum um the core of the team just kind of is what it is um if if they’re going to progress then it’s GNA have to come from within well first of all I’m already preparing for a comment from someone who says wow Derek brought up the last two draft classes and didn’t say Ben Shepard eraser on your part starter in the Conference Finals Ben sheeper to you Derek SCH okay yeah and and you know what I included a second round pick in there in nard right and Shephard was a first round okay fine um I I don’t think Shepard’s going to be that guy yeah I agree I agree sure your point has been made yes so so I agree that those names are the key part of this next step the question to me is is it them getting better or is it them traded for the thing right because the second that that happens whenever it’s going like it almost has to just given what their team looks like right now whenever that trade happens for next thing whatever next thing is if it’s Ben Maan star if it’s darus Walker awesome player if it’s Andrew neard star if it’s two of them traded for amazing player whatever that is that’s when the next era of this window that we’re talking about with zakum is so that I agree with you is kind of where this goes and so can they even play jarus this year with the way their rotation shaking out like what’s mine’s role actually GNA be how much are they playing him with the Rest of Their Stars it’s interesting because these are important questions and you want to answer these development questions but like they’re not in development mode anymore so it’s going to be a fascinating season on how they kind of try to blend all of those things to get to the The Next Step as a team I’m trying to think of the last Pacer who really had last like young Pacer who really had as like critical of a of a year coming up as mathin does right now like I just I I really feel like th this year three is going to tell what he’s going to be because Tony I don’t know you could you could talk me into like Ben Maan makes a leap and becomes like a fringe all NBA level player like you could talk me into that um you could also talk me into him being like uh you know a 13 Point per game scorer who you know um complains a lot and wants the ball and and you know doesn’t really fit with what the pace is doing like I I can I can see kind of the best case and worst case scenarios um playing out with ma or God what what I don’t want is another injury and then you’re left wondering again and then you know maybe he’s part of those trades and he goes somewhere else and then he blossoms and you’re like oh crap what did we do um that’s what I don’t want I I I I I hope we have an answer by the end of this year on what matan’s gonna be so I the time I had like second or third year Lance Stevenson taking a step forward was huge humongo for them and then the other big young guy season is when they started sabonis with Turner for the first time which h i just every interview for five years there was a question about turbus it was turbus it was painful and the year they figured it out to the year they finally blew it up so that was uh that was quite the journey either way it’s among in the last decade like the top I like obviously they had star players who needed to get better like Vic was 25 PG Halbert and even the last couple years but in terms of re a team reaching like oh my gosh this team could actually be in title contention at some point this is a huge year aon’s a big part of it I think jarus is too even though clear doesn’t have the the base that mine currently has um but them finding him in it is going to be very challenging so it’s just like I I just mean like what is he gonna be like like obviously the 1819 season for olao was a really big year because you wanted to you wanted him to prove that 1718 wasn’t a fluke hey like how good can this guy be like that’s that’s one that comes to mind but we already knew that Oladipo was really good because of 17 18 like with with Maan so far we just don’t we don’t really know um what he’s gonna be and so that’s why I was trying to think of somebody that was still sort of in the in the TBD category um that was entering such a a critical year well and like when Turner went from TBD to good and there was Cur people were curious about him they weren’t a good enough team for it to be like this huge question that really mattered they were good they made the playoff but no one they won like what 42 games so that’s totally true and I think that will be one of the defining traits of their coming season and potentially a factor in their next offseason which is a year from now I’m not talk about that Derek thank you for the time I only talked to you for like an hour today what the hell are we doing man we gota gota up the tempo we’re gonna keep this going this is a lot we’re gonna people find you the things you do in the many Airwaves of Indie and your show with jQuery yeah so occasionally on the fan and talking to smarter people than me like like Tony um as a fill in host but ATS 975 on X Twitter um ibj every other week rotating with Mark Monte another guy who’s covered the Pacers for a long time if you want to check those out at ibj.com and then quaran Schultz every Tuesday 7:30 I Sports Network and you can check us out quaran schultz.com as well there I am extraordinarily bad about asking Derek if he’s free on a Tuesday so I just pick his busiest day of the week to be like hey you want to add one more like thing and with me please all good you know my kid’s playing like Little League All Stars we signed them up for too so it’s uh I’m I’m like a I’m a baseball dad besides all this other stuff so I’m like Wheeling the wagons with baseball bats and stuff like that and going to these 900 a. have you yelled have you yelled at an ump yet I’m not hopefully I’m not gonna be that Dad um stay out of you know he’s still only seven so um I’m Gonna Save that until he’s at least 10 or 11 years old and start screaming at us I don’t have kids so I can’t I have I don’t have kids so I obviously can’t speak to the emotion but head I’m like my kid deserves a chance to hit the ball man you can’t be you can’t be getting these calls wrong I’m not GNA yell I’m gonna be Rick carile after game two at the Garden give my kid a chance okay and and a couple of f bombs and I’ll take the fine from the Broad Ripple haford Little League I don’t even care these small Market nine-year-olds deserve a chance man it’s exactly how it’s gonna go oh man thank you all for for making it to that conversation if you’re this far in I don’t know what day you’re listening to this I don’t know what day it’s coming out yet because free agency is crazy and stuff happens all the time like signing James wisman earlier today did not have that one on the bingo card so tomorrow there will be something about the Pacers summer league free agency where they’re headed where they’re going forever Derek thank you very much for the time everybody thank you a ton for listening see you very soon

The Indiana Pacers are four days into free agency. What all have they done, and done well, so far? Host Tony East is joined by Derek Shutz from the IBJ and Query and Schultz to break down Indiana’s free agency so far and the decisions they’ve made.

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