Toronto Maple Leafs lose Wes Clark to Kyle Dubas, reviewing his draft class

Toronto Maple Leafs lose Wes Clark to Kyle Dubas, reviewing his draft class

Kyle dubis takes back one of his own as West Clark Maple Le director of amateur scouting leaves Toronto and heads to Pittsburgh what does this mean for the maple Le we’ll discuss that more on today’s edition of the lockon Le podcast part of the locked on podcast Network it’s your team every [Music] day you’re locked on Maple Leaf your daily podcast on the Toronto Maple leafes part of the locked on podcast Network your team every day hello and welcome into the lock on Leafs podcast a daily Maple Leaf centered podcast hosted by myself Mike Toano and my co-host Dave morisi today’s episode is brought to you by FanDuel make every moment more as playoffs wind down the sport stops sporting like we want him to but this summer FanDuel is hooking up all customers with a booster a bonus daily that’s right there’s something for everyone every day all summer long just visit band.com to get started what’s going on Dave how you feeling on a Wednesday well obviously it’s uh a little bit of sweet seeing Canada’s run at the cop America come to an end it’s not over they can they can still go out there and battle for to chance to get a guarant medal comes to Ed they still have a chance to get third correct but it’s also very tough Argentina’s tough Colombia or Uruguay won’t be any easier yeah I mean it’s it’s look we’re candidate to get to where they are I mean it’s impressive for them to to even be in this position it’s it’s somewhere they’ve never been able to get to obviously this is the furthest that they’ve come in any major soccer tournament ever um so it’s it’s impressive and and they took you know Argentina and Messi to the break twice I thought they were competitive in that game for sure they had their fair share of chances just couldn’t convert uh even had two really good chances in like the final 10 minutes of the game um but hey when you’re playing against the refs it’s it’s tough to win soccer games brother like there’s no there’s nothing that is easier to fix than a soccer match and I’m not saying that the ref fix the match but uh I will say that uh it did seem to be a very one-sided game when it came to the officiating that’s just for my my opinion and from what my eyeball saw and the two other people I was watching the game with I don’t know what you saw but that’s kind of how I saw it uh I’ll I’ll say that there were certainly calls that did not look favorable towards Canada but there are other reasons why they lost that game unfortunately for sure two things can be true though right yes yeah two things can be true it was terribly officiated and they also didn’t play their best two things can certainly be true um let’s get into what we want to talk about today because there’s actually some pretty big news that uh literally dropped what maybe 15 minutes after we recorded yesterday’s show um it did not take very long at all for this news to to circulate there was a report from Elliot fredman saying worded is Wes Clark leaving the Toronto Maple Leafs the director of player personnel and director of amateur scouting uh and said keep an eye on Pittsburgh maybe a reunion with dubis literally three minutes later the Pittsburgh Penguins send out uh send out a tweet that they have hired Wes Clark as their uh director of amateur scouting and vice president to player Personnel so he gets a nice little uh promotion and he reunites with old Kyle dubis out in Pittsburgh what would you make of that move well obviously you don’t like seeing someone that plays a very important role of the organization just you know leave that’s the it hurts and also seeing that he goes to Pittsburgh definitely does not help as well considering he’s not the first uh member of the organization to lead to go to Pittsburgh there were a couple of others but it also just reminds just how how I’m a little curious as to why it happened now rather than a year ago when dubis settled into Pittsburgh like a little off like I would have thought that someone a move like this would have happened like a month after the draft like sort of like how this one happened yeah a year and a bit the timing is a is is a little odd it definitely is a little odd and maybe it’s because dubis you know maybe didn’t have the the pull I don’t know like early in the year or they had somebody else in place that they liked potentially and and they weren’t willing to to move off from him and that position wasn’t available possibly I couldn’t tell you it is kind of strange and even the timing now is also kind of strange considering that West Clark reportedly was at Player Development Camp uh for the maple Le over the past weekend so you go from two days you know or you go from four days we at development Camp you’re you’re watching the the players who you scouted and are here you’re watching them develop and you’re you’re having a good time you’re enjoying it and then two days later you say peace out I’m going to Pittsburgh adios amigos it’s it is very strange uh how it all kind of went down um I don’t know like I it’s you can’t really tell how much of an influence a guy like West Clark and people in his position truly have I guess just because it is so behind the scenes you don’t know exactly how much um is he should be credited for how much he should be blamed for for whatever’s going on with the Maple Leafs and and their drafting um obviously the last three years he has become the main guy in Toronto as the Director of of amateur scouting um but over the course of those last three years Dave I mean the Le have had some pretty good drafts like there hasn’t been a whole lot of opportunity I guess you could say um there hasn’t been a lot of draft picks but the ones that they’ve had in his tenure have been pretty good like I think well Clark has done a pretty solid job in his role and I think this is this is a loss for the Maple Leafs organization well that’s it right like you we’ve always kind of said like where are some of the the draft picks right and it’s not the first round pick it’s not the second round picks where are those third fourth fifth round picks like you eventually you got to start hitting on a couple of them you’re not going to hit on every single one that’s that’s one thing right you’re not going to hit on every single one but you’re seeing teams find a way to get those other players to be contributors in their lineup right and I think for the Leafs here that’s something that was horribly missing not having those those players later in the draft right really come out come in and and have an impact right now is that also just uh kind of a flavor of maybe the coaching staff and the development staff didn’t exactly play a role in the role that they’re supposed to be to get those uh guys up the speed there’s there’s a lot of layers to it it’s not just the scouts did a bad job drafting well what where which where are you referring to when you say this like which years are you referring to I’m looking at the years where the Lea stockpiled all these picks in 2015 and 2016 okay right so what does that have to do with West Clark though it’s not W I’m not saying it’s West Clark it’s just showing where the organization needed to shift and he sort of came in and started to provide a little more that I can see the path of more players through from when West Clark joined okay so you’re you’re coming at this from you’re you’re Pro Clark with this take I am I I I just saw more from West Clark in his time now maybe that’s a little bit of a recency bias but I just know like looking back at pre Clark when he now again I know Clark’s been here for a bit but Pro pre Clark versus now when he took over you could see that there was a bit of a shift in how The Scouting staff where they kind of lean towards in their picks right yeah like you look at these Mike’s got on the screen right now he’s showing the years from like 26 like when really everything changed right 2014 this is when the shanet plan started here in 2014 right today’s show is brought to you by eBay Motors passion drive and patience the formula for winning championships is also it keeps your ride or die alive eBay Marts has everything you need to maintain your vehicle and level it up to Peak Performance from superchargers roof racks exhaust kits LED headlights and more whether is speed power of style eBay Motors has you cover with over 122 million parts for your number one ride or die you’ll always find exactly what you’re looking for and with eBay guaranteed fit your part is guaranteed to fit your ride every time or your money back because of eBay Motors you’re burning rubber not cash with all the parts you need at the price you want it’s easy to make your car the MVP and bring home huge wins keep your ride or die live at ebaymotors.com eligible items only exclusion Supply eBay guaranteed fit only available to us customers I mean neander that was a hit sure it’s a first round pick but VV nothing JJ pinic nothing now Dakota Joshua turned into something but it wasn’t with Toronto he went elsewhere and then later became a pretty solid NHL uh and they did turn Pierre enville into a pretty good you know seventh round pick turning out 318 career games and he’s got himself a nice fat little contract out out in New York but then you look at the following dra draft 2015 outside of Mitch Marner you got nothing right Travis dermit remember Jeremy brocco how excited people were about Jeremy bro and what he was gonna be able to do for the Maple Leafs Big Time offensive Wing in Prospect not even a single game played now I think there were some off I issues with Jeremy brono what about Andrew neelson people thought Andrew neelson was going to be a total stud didn’t turn out to be that case durkl I mean like just look down the list they got nothing out of this 2015 draft out of the 2016 draft again basically nothing outside of Matthews then now Joseph wall is coming into uh coming into his own with this team so you got Matthews and wall here which is tremendous in 2016 but then 2017 the only player from this 2017 draft they had one two three four five six seven selections the only player to play a single game for them was Timothy lilligren and lilligren is a player who you know we’re not sure what they think about this guy cuz he consistently sitting in the Penalty Box in the or in the in the Press Box in the playoffs so you know no other player that they drafted had a single game played and then all of a sudden you start to see things kind of shift a little bit because this is when K du was took over here in 2018 and he drafts Rasmus sandine he drafts Shawn dery and he you know is in part of this uh this draft here and the people who he put in place and believe if I’m not mistake did West Clark come back to the team at this point uh yes in 2018 2019 West Clark came and he was the assistant director of player Personnel so that was in the 1819 draft so that would have been the Nicholas Robertson draft so the year they took Nick Robertson Nick abesi this is I guess when he came back into the organization and then the year where he took over and be look at this 2020 draft they haven’t had a single player playing NHL game in the 2020 draft that is unbelievable um but the year that he took over and this is where I see a lot of people online going and saying oh what has this guy done he’s done absolutely nothing they have no prospects outside of you know Min and c and what prospects do they have and it’s like yeah but those are the only prospects he’s really even drafted like he’s only been here and been in his role as the Director player Personnel just for three drafts that’s all Wes Clark has been you know the head honcho so you look and and you know all of a sudden you look at just the cup the two drafts I guess we can really look at here is 20 uh 2022 Fraser Minon we like him as a prospect do we not yep Nick molden hour we like him as a prospect do we not yeah from everything I’ve heard right Dennis hild Toby has played some excellent hockey since being drafted came over to the AHL put up some pretty good numbers we think he could possibly be part of this goal tending future at least in a a backup capacity at the very least so you got yourself a decent golender who you like Midway through in the fourth round here Nikita grankin I not enough people know how good this player is in the season he had in the KHL not in the Russian Junior League in the KHL the men’s league the guy had like 40 something points they like 20 goals this year as a 20-year-old in the KHL that doesn’t happen very often and he has become a nice you know big two-way Force 6’2 195 pounds he’s added an edge to his game he can score gre’s coming overseas this year he’s gonna be playing in the American League to adjust the North American ice surface people are gonna understand who grankin is uh this year when they get to lay his eyes on him I think he’s a really solid diamond in the rough type of player F that they got there in the fifth round uh and that was in the first year that West Clark you know took over so that’s another solid solid pick but I think like Easton Cowen is kind of the big pick there that he can really really write home about and say you know hey this is a guy who I believed in and I stuck my neck out for him no one else thought that Easton C was worthy of a first round pick we did I thought that he was going to definitely turn out to be a solid player and look what happened a year later wins o MVP in the regular season in the playoffs and he’s now this team’s number one Prospect and a top prospect uh in in hockey in general one of the top prospects in hockey so you know and that’s not to mention the big upside that Noah Chadwick has after a monstrous season uh in the WHL he was one of the the you know biggest risers we could call them on you know the prospect list for the maple leag that was a six round pick so when you look at the drafts that he’s been the lead Guy where he’s been making the main decisions things looked pretty solid for West Clark and the Maple Leafs to the Point yeah that’s the thing with with you’re seeing you see where the Improvement and trying to get guys that are closer to being NHL ready like I again the reason why I were I was hiring him is because I was always I always said the part of the reason why the leaste rebuild hasn’t gone the way it should have is because those drafts prior the 2015 2016 those Foundation years where you had the opportunity to really hone in on your Drafting and developing did not work and you give Clark a little more credit because this is a team that every year was trading a first round pick trading a bunch of picks to try to make a push to win so when you do that to a scouting staff they can only do so much with so little yeah and I think that’s that you that’s always the toughest part for a scouting staff when you don’t have those guaranteed you know Surefire picks to really load up and and throw out there and even this year he had he had a first round pick but didn’t pick again until the fourth round so no second rounder no third rounder like didn’t give you know the scouting staff you know a lot of a lot of high quality darts you know there’s some flyers there in the fifth and seventh round you ended up grabbing six players or three players in each of those rounds but in terms of the quality of prospect um you know there wasn’t a lot of opportunity for him and his scouting staff so uh we’ll see what comes of that but I would say the three draft that he was in charge of as the Director of amateur scouting um I guess this one is remains to be seen they were just drafted like two weeks ago we have no idea what to make of them but the early Returns on Cowan and Chadwick two of the three picks in last year’s draft and the early Returns on what four of the five players in the 2022 draft you got to be happy with that hit rate to this point we’ll see obviously you always need to see it at at the NHL level but so far so good but now he’s not here he’s in Pittsburgh and he’s taking uh he’s taking his talents out to Pennsylvania um n i i i i think it’s a a bit of a loss for the Maple Leafs I think that he’s a a talented Scout he’s got a good eye for hockey and uh Kyle dubis knows it obviously he was a sue guy so he’s always known Kyle dubis and he’s always been a dubis guy and uh going going to Pittsburgh was something that obviously you know was something he planned on doing at some point joining Kyle in pit and he’ll be one of Kyle’s guys and he just it’s the way it’s going to be you know there’s there’s a sense of loyalty there between those two you get that um and even like Wes Clark like he shared a a tweet earlier today which I thought was kind of funny um basically showing like say actually I think we have it right don’t we have uh that why don’t we we can look at that maybe in the next segment okay let’s uh we’ll take a break we’ll come back and then we’ll we’ll show that tweet and you know what does it mean for the lease afterward that’s coming up next here in the lockdown lease podcast today’s episode is brought to you by FanDuel uh I love sports I love him so much I never want him to stop but as the playoffs wind down we get fewer games and all the sports are’t sports and like I want them to FanDuel lets me keep the sports going whenever I want all I got to do is open up the app and dream up bets anytime I’m in the mood and this summer FanDuel is hooking up all customers with a boost or a bonus daily that’s right there’s something for everyone every day all summer long so head over to fanduel.com and start making the most of your summer FanDuel official sports betting partner of Major League Baseball welcome back into the lock on leaves podcast Mike deepo and Dave Mori with you here and uh just reminder we do have a daily Maple East podcast coming at you each and every day new episodes Monday through Friday wherever you can find your podcast that also up on YouTube um so Wes Clark gone director player Personnel for the Maple Leafs he is now in Pittsburgh joining forces with the dark side going uh joining forces with Kyle dubis and yeah we were referencing this tweet that he sent out um pretty much right as soon as it got announced that he was leaving and I I thought it was kind of cheeky uh why don’t we listen to the quote I think this is from a podcast or something um but I thought it was very telling uh kind of the the audio here you read the quote more don’t eat with people you wouldn’t starve with to me like loyalty is really big then if you invest in certain people in your life and they stick by you and you stick by them what else is Life about and that was it that was his response along with you know happy to be in Pittsburgh so obviously him and him and dubis right there’s a there’s a sense of loyalty that goes back to the Sue brought West Clark into Toronto and now he’s bringing him out to Pittsburgh um and that’s where he’s gonna be and and he’s got a nice new shiny title good contract I’m sure he’s making some good chunk of change and uh he’s going to do what he does best and he’s now going to be a big- time Scout for uh for for dubis once again but this time out in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania yeah it there there’s like a very similar train of thought to both dubis and Clark kind of like that philosophical like the Loyalty thing it reminds you a lot about the Jason Spa like as soon as dubis uh wasn’t brought back speta was pretty much like I’m I’m not sticking around either I’m gone you know I’m going with him as well there a little bit of that but again it it also just kind of as I said before just so strange that it didn’t happen right away that Clark yeah that Clark left do you read anything end of that by the way the fact that guys are like I’m gonna I’m gonna follow Kyle instead of I like what shanny’s doing let’s stick with this plan instead you got guys who are jumping ship and following Kyle the Pittsburg like do you read into that at all no I I don’t know if it’s like more of a Shanny thing and more so like maybe Kyle just promising things that maybe these guys wa when you get bring in a I think it maybe more of a brad living thing than a than a shanan thing yeah right because we already know that when you bring in a new general manager they like to bring in guys that they know and can trust well but if I’m not M SP are left before tree was coming yeah that but that yeah that one was purely spets and dubis spent a lot of time together I think that was just more so SPS also saying I got this role here in Pittsburgh we can groom you to be our next general manager because I I feel like that’s always how the thing how it was going to be with uh with Kyle DS I think that situation was more like that um because I don’t think Brandon shanan was going to give spa really any sort of title like that especially under true living so I with the other staff eventually guys start to be like okay eventually trving is going to bring in some of his people I’m a little again I’m also surprised we haven’t seen a lot of that happen we saw a little bit of it we haven’t really seen a whole lot of it um but yeah like there’s I think there’s a little bit of both like guys who you know probably liked working under Kyle and things that Kyle had done um but again yeah like you these sort of things do happen when when there’s such a shift I don’t I just don’t know how much of that is a brat living thing or if it’s a Shanahan thing it’s a little it’s tough to really gauge sometimes like which are which moves yeah fair enough um I guess like the next and obvious question and well it’s not an obvious answer is where the least go from here now they’re in need of a new director of amateur scouting and you know a player Personnel executive and is is this a job you expect for them to probably feel internally at this point then yeah I mean like when we talked about players people that were brought like in by Brad TR living there is one he was hired not too long after Brad TR living was hired and that was Derek Clancy so he was hired as an assistant general manager of player personnel and you know he’s talking about like talent evaluators and things like that I think he was with the Canucks and he oversaw their Pro and amateur scouting so to me that seems like the natural and I think a couple of leaf reporters have also said like this seems like the next like the transition would be to just bring in uh Clancy to promote Clancy into that role because he has done that role before and he also did it with the Penguins when they won three Stanley Cups he did do it with the penguins and actually the Calgary Flames he did work one year um as a pro Scout for the Calgary Flames under Brad true living I’m I’m guessing that’s where you know their relationship started a couple of years ago um yeah the only thing and I don’t know the answer this question uh it could not really matter at all but when he was in Pittsburgh he was the director of professional scouting I know there’s a big difference between Pro Scouts and amateur Scouts right like there there is and that is the and uh the director of amateur scouting is the role that Wes Clark vacates so you know can Derek Clancy fill in that role like is he familiar enough with what’s going on in the minor leagues in the CHL and the KHL the you know the tier two um you know the vhl or the Swedish Junior leagues where you know he can get up to speed that quickly I I personally do not know the answer to that yeah but I think those are answers that you know Brad tree living would have for him if if he was a guy who was possibly capable of of taking over that position um so that’s the only thing I think that I would maybe look at and and question not question Derek Clancy as as a guy who could you know fill in that role but it’s there is a difference between Pro scouting and amateur scouting and drik Clancy’s background is very clearly Pro scouting as opposed to to amateur so uh I do wonder if that plays a role at some point here uh for him maybe not being considered but there’s you know he’s an obvious choice if they do want to maybe put somebody uh possibly in that position you also do have uh Reed Mitchell who’s the director of hockey and scouting operations for the mate beliefs maybe he’s someone who could potentially be uh useful for the mate beliefs could he be a player or a person that they look to you know fill in uh fill in that role at some point here I think maybe Reed Mitchell could be an opport uh an option perhaps yeah I don’t and I don’t know I think um I’m trying to think of who um would have been under West Clark is like the assistant in this in this regard as yeah it doesn’t like say you know like I guess you just be looking at the amateur Scouts like who are the big-time amateur Scouts for the maple LEF like that’s kind of what youd be looking at which let me see if I can if they have the amateur Scouts here at all they they they do have a list of all the amateur Scouts like Victor Alm Scott Bell Tommy Bergman like are like if we want to add it to the stage we could share it yeah so like there’s there’s a lot of names here I I know some people will recognize Jim VC’s name but I just don’t know if any of those qualify under the you know director position right maybe there is maybe there’s an opportunity for some there this name here if I’m not mistaken Chris Rog um I believe he was referenced by uh by West Clark as one of his as one of their top Scouts Chris Rog when they were talking about one of the players I can’t remember exactly who it was but he talked about yeah yeah like rogi one of our top Scouts was really high on him and uh I think it was one of their picks in the fifth round or something like that maybe it was Sam McHugh or I think that’s what it was actually I think it was Sam mchu he was really high on him so you know Junior Scout maybe in the OHL yeah he was one of Dub’s he he was with dubis in the Sue so he could be also too one day okay well possibly then maybe he could could end up going somewhere um yeah so you know it’ll be interesting to see what they decide to do here um I do notice that uh it does appear that wasn’t uh Jake musen was a pro Scout but he is doing more Player Development now no I know that but it it looks like he’s come off of the pro Scout scouting staff which I find interesting because it hasn’t been officially announced like where is he I’m trying to he’s not really in the Player Development either anymore they got to do they got to do a little work on the on the website uh registry they were too busy removing maybe they got two Exel and removed uh muin but forgot to put them back possibly that’s possible I suppose is he anywhere else up in here no interesting interesting but anyway so there there’s you know some internal options we’ll see if they decide to go with any of them um or maybe they decide uh to to go elsewhere um to to try and fill the position but either way Maple Le’s going to have to uh to fill the void and I think it’ be interesting to see you know it’s got to a point where I’ve I you know when you’re when you cover a team like you and I do you start to understand how they operate a little bit like I’d gotten to the point where I I understand West ‘s line of thinking so when he he makes a draft pick and and he talks about them like I I understand why he’s doing what he does and you know I think typically it’s worked out now we’re gonna have a new man in charge so it’s it’s going to be completely different uh when it comes to the scouting staff moving forward so I’ll be curious to see how things change so it’s a new GM in the last year it’s now a new coach new Scout uh new head Scout might be in the in the works does that mean a completely new scouting staff could potentially be you know coming through here into Toronto I don’t know we’ll see but uh definitely it was some interesting little piece of news to wake up to today that West Clark uh departing Toronto going to Pittsburgh and there’s now a pretty pretty sizable and vacant spot uh vacant job for the Maple Leafs and their scouting staff we’ll see what ends up happening uh happening throughout the summer at some point we’ll see all right anything else you want to get into today no I think uh it’ll be interesting to see how the Leafs uh what the Leafs do eventually do with this position but I’m assuming they’ll probably could be a outside hire coming at some point too yeah we’ll see we’ll see what happens uh maybe there’s somebody who’s still out in Calgary right um who didn’t quite leave just yet who might be you know one below then could end up looking for promotion and well know a tree living guy perhaps that’s possible too very similarly to exactly what happened with the mate beliefs and and this whole situation with dubis coming in and poaching uh poaching his guy maybe tree living goes and poaches a guy from from Calgary it’s possible very possible that could happen but that’ll do it for us here today on the podcast like to thank you all for listening and supporting the show you can subscribe to the lockon Le podcast on all platforms and receive daily leaps content follow myself on Twitter miyku follow Dave at Dore morisi and follow the show as well at lockon Leafs we’ll be back with another episode for you guys tomorrow but until then keep a l right here on lockdown Leafs

The Toronto Maple Leafs lost a valuable member of its front office staff with Wes Clark reuniting with Kyle Dubas. Mike DiStefano and David Morassutti look at the impact of Clark’s departure and the irony of him leaving to join up with Dubas. They look back at his drafts while in charge with the Leafs and how it compares to the approach the team had in the past. To end the show, Mike and Dave discuss if there were any potential internal candidates to replace Clark or if the team needs to consider an external hire for the process.

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