This definitely the topic of conversation that’s dividing the fanbase more than anything else right now. Every comment I read regarding topic this always leans one way or another. I’d like to bring the conversation back to the middle if possible. It’s hard to take discussions seriously when you know certain people lean so far in one direction and can’t articulate anything good/bad for opposing thoughts. I’d like to start a discussion and challenge participants to List 3 pros and cons of keeping Daboll and Schoen.
Pros for Daboll:
1. Wide receivers are schemed open and it shows on tape.
2. Did not lose the locker room last year despite poor performance, seems the same this year. Players seem to like playing for him.
3. Curious to see what his offense looks like with a QB of his choosing. Daniel Jones performance years 4-6 looks pretty much like years 1-3. He’s pretty much peaked all the production he can out of jones.
Cons:
1. What’s to say anything improves? This offense was terrible last year and it’s terrible this year. We bottom barrel and why should he get chance to fix it?
2. Keeping him could cost us 2 good coaching candidatesI can see. Mike Vrabel and Ben Johnson for starters. If we are going to restart with a new QB wouldn’t it be better swap out the entire front office and coaching staff?
3. Does his personality cost us good positional coaches and coordinators down the line?
Pros for Schoen:
1. Modernized the front office. Uses analytics to influence salary cap, drafting and scouting procedures.
2. Best free agent GM of my lifetime atleast. Players he brought in are all on team friendly contracts and have been great contributors.
3. Always acts in the best interest of team. If he got fired today, a new GM can come in and not be screwed trying to fix mistakes.
Cons:
1. Daniel jones contract. DJ should have been franchised, instead gave him 160 mil which cost us Love, McKinney, and Barkley.
2. Net negative drafting, good 2024 draft doesn’t make up for terrible 2022 and 2023 drafts.
3. Inability to find players to fill in special teams voids this year is his biggest failure of 2024.
If you are leaning towards getting rid of this regime, please share who you would like as their replacements. It’s easy to scream you want them gone but if you can identify who’s a better replacement… it adds value to your argument.
29 comments
Given our record of coaches/GM after coughlin left, there’s no reason to think that getting rid of them will make us better. They were seen as good candidates around the league after turning buffalo into a respectable franchise again, throwing them out isn’t going to solve our problems. At least keeping them they will get the benefit of a doubt with drafting their own qb
Firing them doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me, let them really fail if they mess up the QB, but no one here should trust Mara to hire the right person, so firing them is just getting your pound of flesh
Absolutely keep. Theyre not perfect obv. But theyre relatively new at their jobs and are getting better. They will end up being by far the two best things to happen to this org since the 11 sb. They will get their qb this offszn and with another fa and draft i expect us to be a solid team next year cause dabes will understand how to develop the qb and at the same time put some wins on the scoreboard with the way he ll use him. My favourite is shadeur. Im in love with his anticipation and iq. But i ll be fine with whatever qb they take. I do feel like they like shadeur. Some of our guys were at colorado practice. With the whole situation with deion deciding where hes gonna be drafted i feel that could be significant.
Daboll is a yes imo, as you stated his schemes clearly work, jones is just shit. Also remember that if we fire daboll, what decent head coach is gonna take a risk on an incredibly tenuous position who fires coaches after three year, with one of those years being a coach of the year?
Schoen imo is way more straightforward. This draft has been great for us, and outside of jones contract he has a solid management regime. I would keep him unless this class somehow flames out horribly in the back half of the season
Daboll I’m fine with. I have some concerns with preparation and the situations surrounding him and multiple coordinators (Graham, Wink, and Kafka), but overall he tends to call very good games outside of a few nitpicks I have. I don’t see a good replacement. Ben Johnson seems very picky on where he would want to go (So lack of an established QB sounds like a no), and I think Vrabel is at most a side-move.
Schoen is the more difficult one for me. This last draft class was amazing and I will 100% give him props for that. However, the overall state of the team is very much his fault first and foremost. The argument of Gettleman’s mistakes was valid in year one, and still held some weight in year 2, but that went out of the window as soon as any amount of dead cap space by Gettleman’s mistakes was eclipsed by Jones’ contract and the additional $15m for Tyrod and Lock. Be it right or wrong at the time, he committed to the roster he was given. Not rejected it.
Yet despite that, the team isn’t in a horrible situation, and despite my reservations on how Schoen has managed the team (IE: Twice now losing games because of a failure to either move money, or save enough to have a healthy kicker on gameday), I could be comfortable with comitting to him and Daboll for the next 2 seasons now that he will have cap space and likely a new young QB to work with. There are some expensive holes on this roster to address, but I think it will be manageable.
Con: they pick a QB, one or both are replaced, then the new regime inherits a QB they probably don’t want.
How many GM and HCs need 4+ offseasons to get a shot at a QB? Lol
I definitely don’t think we should fire Schoen. He gained a lot of credit back with me after this draft and off season. I think it was wise to not keep Saquan and most of the signings have been good.
Daboll I’m not sure on. The team does seem poorly organized and managed.
I’d love Ben Johnson but idk how realistic it is.
Vrabel on the other hand doesn’t excite me at all depsite seeing some talks about him here.
They aren’t going anywhere. They’ll get a chance at getting their qb
If Ben Johnson is available and wants to coach for us
Kick Daboll immediately I’m sorry
But this is a pretty good pro/con list but ik he was pretty bad towards the end but
Reese helped us get two superbowls with his gem drafting early in his tenure Schoen isn’t better than he was
That rant aside we’ve gotten worse every year they’ve been here and upgraded the roster every year they’ve been here. At a certain point you can’t ignore this trend and if the rookie QB we draft struggles because he’s a rookie QB and we still suck what happens then?
Just keep them after another bad season?
Cause we can blame Jones
Daboll didn’t lose the locker room *yet*. There’s still 7 games to go. This is very much still tbd. We’re already seeing some cracks with Banks’s lack of effort, players reportedly unhappy McCloud got cut.
If you keep them and let them draft a rookie you almost have to give them two more years. Because rookie QBs generally have growing pains. There’s a chance you get a Stroud / Daniels immediate hit but not very likely. What you don’t want is to keep them but have them on the hot seat with a rookie QB. You generally want your QB, coach, and GM timelines to be aligned.
Personally I’d go for a fresh start and offer a bag to Ben Johnson.
Any idea how much of the call to keep DJ was due to Mara over Schoen?
They won with gentleman’s guys and let them walk. They signed a backup qb to a $160 mill deal. They used the #6 pick to draft a receiver to fix their qb who can’t pass. Negative point differential each year and growing. The best moves they have made have been resigning gettlemans guys.
Do you want them to draft the next qb?
Everybody has to go. They haven’t done enough to warrant staying for the entire length of a rookie QB deal and if you let them choose and that QB struggles and you fire them year 2 into it you’ve then made your next QB officially DJ jr. Clean house. Our team is as bad now as it’s ever been no reason to keep them other than fear of the unknown.
Daboll is a great play caller. Jones has guys wide open all over the field, he just can’t hit them. Hopefully a new qb can help solve those problems but I’m not holding Daboll accountable for that.
Con: it’s not hard to find someone to replace guys who have picked top 1-7 during their tenure (probably picking first overall this year as well) (anybody in this league can get the first overall pick)
Con 2: do giants want a hot seat gm/coach combo picking a franchise qb with their asses likely to get canned the following season?
Also do the giants want guys on this franchise who are focused on saving their own ass with desperation moves rather than making decisions for the best of the franchise?
Rip the bandaid off like a man. The giants fucked up at QB, coach, and gm. Call a spade a spade and move on as quickly as possible so the franchise can go back to winning
You can’t evaluate a coach and GM combo without their QB. That’s it.
I would like to them stay even though they messed up the QB situation. It was a tough situation with the timing of Jones contract but they did leave an out after 2 years. With how bad the Giants have been I’d like to see how they do with a little stability at gm and coach. They have some good young players, let’s see if they can build something here. It can’t be worse than it’s been.
Commies fan here, so take my statement with a grain of salt; but giving DJ that contract over retaining Barkley is a fireable offense in and of itself. DJ *required* Barkley on the field in order to be effective. I don’t know if it’s Barkley specifically or just a quality dual threat RB, but not having Barkley on the field has always been death for DJ (unless you were playing us) and it doesn’t take experience in a front office to see that. I’d have given Saquon whatever he wanted and optioned Jones. Expensive? Sure, but it’s only a one year commitment with no baggage afterwards.
I’d fire Daboll because I think he is a hothead and the players are tense because of it. I get that if he does get fired, the consensus will be that DJ got him canned. There’s definitely some truth to that… But the fact of the matter is the Giants are an embarrassment right now that loses week in and week out.
On the other hand, I’d keep Schoen because I am impressed with the 2024 class. I think he’s smarter and easier to work with, and I wanna give him a chance to get his QB. Lord knows he wanted to this year.
> Best free agent GM of my lifetime atleast.
The bar to clear is so so low since Accorsi (I’m guessing you’re too young to have watched then), but who are the best Schoen signings so far? Okereke and then…Van Roten? Eluemenor? Not too impressive when your best signings are an above average LB and a serviceable lineman. Glowinski, Feliciano, Parris Campbell were all horrible signings while Singletary and Runyan have looked pretty bad so far. If we expand to include trades then the Waller trade was a failure while the Burns trade has produced mixed results (great pass rusher but terrible run defender and a big reason we are so bad against the run).
> Did not lose the locker room last year despite poor performance
It still remains to be seen if he can keep it together this year. People want to point to a locker room meltdown like what happened with McAdoo but I could see it happening more like Judge where vets start leaking thoughts to the press in the last few weeks of the season. I will say that I don’t like how Daboll shys away from accountability in his pressers and seems to throw his players under the bus. Opposing players have also been clowning us for the Jones contract for two years now and if opposing teams are thinking it, I’m sure they’re thinking it in our locker room too. It also probably hurts more for players to see Saquon tear it up in Philly. With continued losing I could see these things coming back to hurt morale.
Their clocks start ticking when there’s a new QB1 under center. Not a Gettleman QB…
Commanders are looking pretty good after they were sold.
Give them one more year. I think while the DJ signing and whiff on Banks is problematic, he did his best to get us out of cap hell and improve the offensive and defensive lines. Let’s see what Daboll can do with a different QB.
I believe mara when he says that they will both be back next season, so i don’t think there’s any point to hoping one way or the other. But i think the complete mismanagement of both Evan Neal and Josh Ezeudu is the thing that definitely tips the scale towards getting rid of both of these bozos.
They need stability. Enough with turnover.
The only pro that matters is that top coaching and gm candidates won’t come to a team that doesn’t give it’s management a chance to affect real change. Any decision that fails next year is the result of the current regime. No longer can they point the finger at Gettleman and co. It’s all internal. You have to let this regime either succeed or flounder with cap scenarios and draft results that they are directly responsible for. Otherwise if you DO choose to clean house you’re not getting the best candidates you’re getting more Joe Judge.
Results matter. Clean house.