Matt Nagy was made the OC in 2023 following the departure of Eric Bienimy. Since then, Patrick has experienced a large downtick in every statistical category.

Patrick did not have Tyreek in 22 and his best receiver was Juju and he won the MVP.

I feel like on a national basis at least, Nagy has mostly eluded widespread criticism, but producing these numbers with the greatest QB of all time should get you fired.

Patrick is a rising tide that lifts all boats and the team has enough success that you don't see the need to fire anyone. Mike McCarthy was the coach for Aaron Rodgers for 12 years and they did well enough you couldn't fire the coach. Well they finally did and he won 2 MVPs in his late 30s

It is hard to parse how much of this is Nagy and how much is on Andy, I guess I'm willing to trust one of the greatest offensive minds this century over one Matt freaking Nagy

40 comments

  1. You do realize that the last two years’ pass catchers have been significantly worse than the first few years? Do you think that would impact numbers at all? It’s not solely on Nagy. Also we won two superbowl since Nagy came back so your point is mute.

  2. I brought up Matt nagys incompetence in a game thread and got 30 downvotes. Thank you for voicing this. Matt Nagy is a great qb coach, terrible oc.

  4. nagy was the qb coach in 22. the person in the film room with mahomes all of that season. no credit for that?

    bieniemy’s so great, i wonder which nfl offense he’s running now.

    regardless, andy reid has final say about everything on the offense. period.

  6. > Patrick did not have Tyreek in 22 and his best receiver was Juju and he won the MVP.

    He also had a TE with 1300 yards and 12 TDs, as well as MVS’ 2nd best season ever in terms of yards (687, his best was 690).

  7. Nagy should go. He’s decent, but the offense obviously needs a jolt which a new OC can provide.

  9. I’m not saying you’re wrong or off base, but a couple points.

    In 2017, the Chiefs started 5-0, then suddenly went 1-5 over the next 6 games. At which point Reid handed sole play calling duties to Nagy. They finished the season 4-1 with Alex Smith leading the league in QBR that season.

    Is Nagy the one overthrowing his receivers? Blocking the pass rushers? Ignoring the underneath routes to try and throw the bomb?

    I get it though, GOOD playcalling can cover for some of those things and I think we saw that on Sunday when adjustments were made at half time and we were moving the ball well at times.

    But you can’t point a finger at Nagy without also noting that Reid is a BIG part of the play calling and game plans.

  10. Honest question, why didnt we promote Kafka? I just cant seem to remember it, i feel like the WR gets open alot on the giants when i watch them, Jones just sucks, he is also young and looks like a future HC

  12. This is pure stupidity

    He’s also responsible for 2017- smith’s best year here

    Got him a head coaching job. He was mahomes first QB coach and he credits him with helping a ton

  13. it’s actually wild how dumb this sub has become, bandwagoners really do ruin the perception of fanbases

  14. I mean – at a certain point we’ve also got to just accept the fact that we’ve been on top long enough to be public enemy number one.

    If I was a head coach and my DC spent the entire off-season and 1 practice a week prepping for the Chiefs game, I’d consider that time well spent.

    I don’t think our system is the issue – but I am quietly confident that we’ll start to see it running at full capacity and showing off the innovation as we ramp up to the postseason.

    No reason to show off (and put on tape) the new stuff if the “ABC football” is getting us to the 1 seed, ya know?

  15. Really really wish EB stayed. I don’t understand the rush to get out from under Andy Reid so he can prove himself and get a HC job. He’s still so young for a coach, and I bet he would have had a good chance to become the chiefs coach after Andy retires

  16. It’s so hard to separate Nagy from Reid, as it was with EB. A side question, can whoever is calling the plays finally accept that bubble screens to Kelce are producing no YAC at all and haven’t for a while? It’s just the weirdest play call and I don’t know how much evidence they need that it doesn’t work. We seem so determined to throw these and our success rate is just super low.

  18. Normally I sort of just ignore this narrative, but one stat that caught my eye recently was EPA on different downs. Pat is in the bottom 3rd of the league on 1st and 2nd down, meanwhile on 3rd down and 4th down his EPA remains as good as ever. That would indicate to me there is something wrong with the play calling/design on early downs specifically, and early downs would lean a bit more towards towards the coaches than the QB.

    Now obviously other things have changed since 2022, but there’s probably something to question there with what Nagy and Reid are doing. The last time Nagy was here, we had sort of an ongoing controversy as to who was calling plays, Reid stepping back from play calling, stepping back in, etc. With EB, if nothing else you always got the sense that he was delivering the vision, making sure concepts were installed correctly, keeping everyone locked in, etc. You sort of question what things are like between Nagy, Bleymaier, Embree, and Reid in terms of getting the offense on the same page week to week.

    On the plus side Pat’s numbers in general have looked much better over the last month+, particularly since Hopkins joined the team, and the offense looks healthier than it did earlier in the season, so I think we are turning the corner despite the recent loss.

  19. The tackle situation for Bienemy was infinitely better than anything Nagy has had to work with. I also don’t recall Bienemy having to deal with WR1 and 2 injuries. Let’s be honest, the FO always invested in weapons for Bienemy. The FO has invested more in defense under Nagy. The offense was bound to regress. Our offense under Nagy is still very efficient. You can’t blame him for penalties killing drives, Mahomes missing throws, the defense getting cooked at times, etc. Lastly, in 2022 Nagy was the QB coach. He deserves some credit for that season, no?

    For the record, I don’t think the OC in KC plays as big of a role as people think. This team lives and dies based off Reid’s decision-making and Mahomes being Mahomes.

  20. Ask the Bears fans about Nagy and his atrocious red zone. They were glad to see him gone.

    Is it Nagy or Reid who keeps taking Kelce off during plays? Cause this shit needs to stop. It’s disrupting the flow. The worst being during the Super Bowl, which resulted in bringing on Gray with a terrible blocked that made Pop fumble the ball. Then Kelce blasted them all and the second half he got to actually play with flow and they won the Super Bowl. The difference between the first and second half was remarkable.

  21. it’s called split safety defense with two deep safeties. try to get pressure with your front 4, maybe a qb spy and drop the rest. league avg passing yards per game is down since 2020 by 50 yards, and rushing yards are ticking up +9/game compared to last year. There were 12 1000-yard rushers last year. There will probably be 20+ this year. it’s a parody league.

  22. Your comparison to McCarthy is apt. Nagy may be “good enough” as an OC but he’s clearly not elevating the offense like Bienemy did.

    If we lose the Super Bowl this year because our offense continues to underperform I hope it’s a sign to Andy that something needs to change, like when Sutton got replaced with Spags after the AFCCG loss. Our offense deserves better.

    With any hope Doug Pederson comes back to KC after he gets fired from the Jags. He’s a good OC and a good coach overall even if his stint with the Jags hasn’t worked out.

  24. Andy is the one calling all plays and shots no matter how much anyone thinks Nagy does. Listen to the press conferences. All the players talk about what BIG RED dials up or what COACH REID dials up. Nagy does have a role, obviously, but it’s not near on him as everyone makes it.

    Look at the left and right tackle play for crying out loud. Hard to run your intermediate to deep route concepts like they did a few years ago when the left tackle doesn’t even sniff people on some plays. He’s also having to leave more tes and rbs in to help chip and help the tackles than in the past. This is a major issue.

  28. Wake up honey, the annual “this is all the OC’s fault” thread we’ve had on this sub since 2021 got posted.

  29. I’ve fallen into this trap of blaming Nagy for the struggles but in reality its well known Offense is Reid’s department. That line marks the end of having a HOF QB, HOF TE, and solid WRs.

    Kelce is older so we cant use him up now. Our top 3 WRs are currently injured, and the OLine has struggled to protect Mahomes. Add in injuries have likely thrown off Mahome’s mechanics and its easy to see why he is badly struggling

  30. There are way too many confounders to believe this is Nagy alone. Andy calls the plays and always has done so.

    That said, I do think the offense would be improved by bringing in new blood/don’t think the Nagy hire was particularly inspired

  31. I’m not at practice everyday, but I would venture to guess that the O.C. in KC may be one of the more ineffectual titles in the organization. As in, I don’t know how much credit Bienemy deserved or how much blame Nagy deserves.

    Just on the surface, Reid does most of the play design and overrules play calls, and Mahomes is a master of the broken play while also changing the call at the line of scrimmage. So I think any O.C. is really there to run drills and make the first play-call suggestion that usually isn’t the play that is eventually run.

  34. I think the reason we miss Bienemy is that he held players accountable. Reid is a player friendly coach and I think that was balanced out brilliantly by Bienemy. Nagy is just too similar to Reid in demeanor.

  36. On a macro level like this, any major changes to stats during Nagy’s time at OC probably have much more to do with personnel on the field than the OC himself.

  37. It’s Andy’s offense. It’s always been Andy’s offense. The only impact the OC has on this offense is motivation and assisting with install of Andy’s offense.

  38. People will try and nitpick this and bring up super specific anecdotal evidence to dispute it but you cannot deny the aggregate is clearly worse since Nagy has arrived. It’s still a small sample size but it isn’t hard to tell that these last 2 years are some of Pat’s worst, and those are also the only 2 years of his career he’s had Nagy as his OC. Coincidence? I don’t think so, but the next 2 seasons or so we’ll know for sure.

  39. Not sure how much of what you are presenting is accurate based on what others are saying with your timeline.

    However I can tell you for sure I did not like Nagy when he was here before, he was awful in Chicago, and I was severely disappointed he was coming back to KC.

    That being said if Pat makes some better throws to worthy this would all be different I bet. Not in all cases, but at least in these cases with where the that I’m saying, we would be having a totally different conversation, worthy has been open or Travis was open in the end zone last week and pat just missed these throws. So to be fair to Nagy those guys were schemed open and Pat missed

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