Cincinnati Reds SWEPT by Detroit Tigers in Ugly Series at GABP | Chatterbox Reds | Game 90
High Drive left Center feet racing back to the world B the RS are National League Central Division champions in the air left center field d [Music] d win win the right field the First with runs in the game you believe it down the White Field wi doesn’t have a chance the on a free run home opening day by Ramon Hernandez strike away and outway is Homer Bailey round ball to third Fraser gloves throw to first and Homer Bailey for the second time in his major league career has toss the no oh are you kiding [Applause] [Music] me history to hit seven home runs in the first 10 game in the air the wi what a dream beginning to the career of [Music] Bruce all right Nick um I know that you’re uh listen I’m just going to get out in front of it Nick’s not pleased with his camera okay he’s going to be worried about that right now and all this other stuff I just I think we can all just agree that we’re going to do a nice show tonight Nick the camera situation we’ve seen it before obviously it’s better when it works but you know what not a whole lot of things are going right around these parts that are Cincinnati Reds fandom so uh you know it’s kind of a poetic justice that the camera doesn’t work on a Sunday night edition of Chatterbox Reds a losing one I might add a losing one and um I I don’t know man I really I’m I’m I’m happy to have you back uh I I just would say that this is uh tough sleding I think is the term that’s been used for I think that I would use it here worst case scenario is what just happened for your Cincinnati Reds on this home stand nick uh I know you’ve been off uh kind of covering covering some Min League Baseball the past few days but the big league club struggling my man yeah tough weekend um I think if they would have won on on Saturday that taking that game I think you probably could you know feel a little bit better about where things are feels like that’s like the one that just really probably stung the most and if they had won that game I think you would have not been feeling great but you wouldn’t be feeling maybe as uh um as terrible you know yes it is a weird psychological thing that is fandom and we are fans obviously we you know um that that’s what we are first and foremost you know I I I will always hold to that I think that there’s going to be something that you know whether whether credentials ever become a thing or not whether we want them I don’t know but my point in saying that is inevitably you know I know that journalists or professional journalists are are supposed to be unbiased and and have a a very strict guideline when it comes to to fandom we’re fans first man and uh I think that we relate to a lot of people that that watch this team night in night out there is some psychological effect that comes with this because if they were to lose if they were to lose one of three or two of three lose the series in New York come home beat the the Tigers we’re probably feeling a little bit different but it is kind of a a it’s a sour subject largely because you had every opportunity in the world to take a what you did was set yourself up with with a great opportunity and you kind of just uh you completely wasted it um use every analogy you want in sports maybe we had a 4minute power play Nick five on three and in the uh Stanley Cup finals and we didn’t score a goal you know that’s kind of how it feels it’s like well if we played five minutes of five on five hockey then we didn’t score a goal it feel okay but it kind of felt like we were in an opportunity or had an opportunity to do do some damage to get right back into the thick of things and unfortunately now it feels like we’re right back to square one two steps forward three steps back I wouldn’t even say it was one step forward in New York it felt like more than that it felt like all right maybe they’re starting to believe again and maybe this offense isn’t as bad as I thought it was and then they punch you right in the face and remind you that they are kind of who they are we’ll talk about it obviously we’ll we’ll get into the rundown I’m sure that there’s going to be some good discussion Andor some some uh some disappointing discussions around some people and some people as in the organization as a whole and probably some individual players at that but as always there was a game today uh Nick and it it was a long time ago it feels like it almost feels like yesterday at this point but we’ll do a Box schol recap presented by Nick Kirby all Red’s sing on the Tigers Red’s trying to avid Avid a sweep on Sunday afternoon Graham Ashcraft up against Tariq scoble Ashcraft gave up one run over four and 23s inning Nick Martinez gave up another run in the seventh and the Reds Trail two nothing going into the bottom of the seventh and scoble was absolutely cruising the Lefty scooo had only given up two base runners ironically enough a double hit 110 off the bat by Austin W and a single by Will Benson Reds were able to scratch one across off scoel in the seventh candelario had a leadoff double and eventually scored on a Marte RBI grounder scoel would finish today with a career high 13 strikeouts with zero walks only allowed three hits with the Reds trailing 2-1 David Bell made the somewhat surprising move to Marte made yet another air his fifth in just 10 games since returning off his 80 game ped suspension that kept the ending alive and the Tigers made the Reds pay when Zack mckinstry hit a two-run home run off Diaz just the third Homer Diaz has allowed this season Tigers was scratched across another run and took a commanding 5-1 lead Reds went fairly quietly in the bottom of the eighth and the bottom of the ninth against the Tigers pin Reds fall 5-1 to the Tigers red swept at home to the Tigers Reds have now lost five straight games at Great American Ballpark and seven of their last eight Red’s now 42 and 48 on the season we’re not we’re not we’re I tell you what I just did half that ad read and I was muted the whole time so there is that but I will just say uh what I was saying while I was muted was that uh this is where we’re at we’re we’re we’re we’re now every time I say we’re at the depths of hell um we just find a way to get farther and farther so you know my friend John very very very very good person and and he helps us uh helps us out tremendously really makes this show possible for being completely Frank uh John at DSC at Deep South Commodities he’s like you know what we’re having a great year let’s let’s do a deep Drive of the day you know like a home run this is back when the Reds were hitting home runs a lot we were winning baseball games and sure enough I I hate to tell JN this but uh we’re stooping so low that we got Austin wins doubles now that’s his fourth double though I think uh there was a nice little stat there he used the first red since um George Washington or something like that to hit four doubles in his first four hits is a Cincinnati Red it was 110 off the bat 294 ft and thank the Lord the left fielder didn’t catch it cuz that was the only hope it seemed like at the time for the Cincinnati Reds to score um they didn’t but regardless uh the win the Reds win probability at the time was 62% as we all know would end up being 0% d C they are uh Deep South Commodities and they are a leader they are a leader in renewable commodities for biofuel production specializing in used cooking oil collection aggregation and sales visit www.de south.com for more information all right Nick uh let’s get into it I really at this point I have home lows on there I don’t have a huge take on this I I really do think it’s disappointing though because maybe it’s just uh again and I’ve done this a thousand times on this show and I’ll do it a thousand more maybe I just can’t like my brain isn’t Computing the actual real figures that it that it just comes to me and feels like it feels like every time this team comes back home for what is a huge pivotable big-time home stand or series for that matter they do not deliver they do not deliver last year they lost almost every ser series that we called a big series we come home and we get swept by the by the Tigers I think that’s five straight losses now five straight losses at gabp um and seven of eight so I don’t know three straight Series yeah so I don’t know your thoughts on the home W yeah I don’t know I I don’t know if you’ll make too much out of it but Red’s uh 500 team on the road 22 and 22 20 and 26 at home last year the Reds were six games better at home um which is your traditional case and there’s random years where for whatever reason you win more games on the road than than at home I don’t know if it’s a psychological thing or anything like that but this this series to me was like eerily similar and I know it was later in the season like almost a full month later but that Washington National series that’s what this uh uh series kind of felt felt like to me um at the end of the weekend you it just was there was there was there was so many opportunities this weekend um to win games too like I mean they they they they threw the ball well enough to win at least a game we all know that but but to not get anything out of it is crazy it is just genuinely crazy that this that this happened and and I don’t mean it as in crazy as in like I can’t believe our team’s so good that they lost the Tigers three straight times I mean it’s just like every single time that this team finally finally gets me to a point where I’m like you know what I can live with it I can live with it I’ve come to grips with it I’ve looked myself in the mirror and I’ve told myself and I I find out the truth this team’s not very good they’re not and then and then they do something stupid like they go to New York and they win three games in a row they sweep the they sweep the Yankees they got the quote unquote which I’m about tired of doing this but quote unquote the easiest part of their schedule all year they got them all at home right before the All-Star break going to be shooting into the second half of the season on a hot streak maybe even being in right near a playoff spot and what do they do they lay an egg they lay an egg and uh it’s not even a golden egg to be quite Frank the only thing that we’re laying are goose eggs quite honestly on the scoreboard and that’s the that’s the real problem we’ll get into here in a minute Nick but um I just I just wish they would do it I just wish they would just just basically run me over you know I know that sounds stupid but it’s like I just want to know what I’m dealing with I kind of do am I deal with a team that has a chance to make the postseason or am I just going to be watching for individual players all for the rest of the season and try to enjoy those players because I do think that there are times where i’ I’ve let I’ve let the bitterness of losing ruin my joy of watching honestly Ellie de Cruz which shout out to him for being an All-Star but sometimes I do feel that way yeah I mean just just look this offense is just average at best um you know when you go to New York they hit a lot of home runs early in those games and when you hit some home runs early in those games and you pitch well it makes everything feel better in this series I think though I the only home runs that were hit were all pretty much late home runs when the game was in hand right sear hit two that were Friday and Saturday that were both after after was there any other home runs that I miss miss any I I only watched the condensed games on on Friday there wasn’t I mean there was an opportunity there was an opportunity not from a home run perspective today that I felt like okay you can get some positive momentum you get a double by wins it was our deep Drive of the day after all and you do nothing with it and um you know I don’t know I don’t I’m not I just don’t want to go down a a rapid hole here and get into the weeds of of today’s baseball game cuz ultimately they got dominated they got absolutely Ely dominated by a good pitcher by the way I’m not acting like I’m not acting like it was nothing other than you know the Reds offense there’s something to do with the fact the AL sa young candidate might have had something to do with it but this offense hasn’t really given us a chance to give them a leash yeah I I don’t know I mean it’s it’s even tougher I mean you know steuart far shot out the lineup to I know he’s not everyone’s favorite red by by any stretch of the imagination but um he’s a good hitter against lefties and probably doesn’t make a difference today but I mean again I keep I keep saying I mean everyone pushes back on when I say this offense is close to average they’s 16th right now in run scored so yes they’ve had some big performances but so have other teams like the Reds can’t be the only team that’s had some big performances that has inflated their run total a little bit it’s just offenses just aren’t what they were um pitching is so dominant across this sport right now that I think every team outside of um you know maybe like the Orioles Yankees Dodgers the the top of of baseball the Phillies everyone probably thinks their offense sucks right now I think you say that but I don’t I mean I don’t know I don’t know I I I genuinely say that as like not factiously I I I mean that sincerely I I genuinely don’t know um I’ll tell you this I’ll say I’ll say it like this then if this offense is as League average Major League Baseball has a problem because as somebody that that that’s just a casual fan of the game if the team that I watch on a nightly basis this offense is your average product that I get to watch on a on a on a on a on a grand scale of things this product is brutal to watch then I got to be honest it feels like I’m going out and I’m watching uh menshu of the Indianapolis Colts play play quarterback every single week and somebody goes yeah you know that menu guy I got news for you he’s actually one of the he’s actually all right he’s one of the League average players it’s like really I gotta watch I want to watch that pretty much across the league I mean I’m not saying you’re wrong but I got I got I I got I gotta tell you this offense is terrible and if this is League average God bless Major League baseball and God bless Rob Manford but he’s got a mountain to climb my friend there is zero chance that I I’m just saying in my opinion my humble one of course there is just no chance that this offense over the Long Haul would be League average now maybe again to be clear on a runs perspective they’ve figured a way out the score 16 17 runs and I know I’m being a little ridiculous right now multiple times to make this whole thing look a little better but I’d like to find a team that ruins great starts as much as the Cincinnati Reds not to put you on a task but I I I i’ venture to bet we we’re pretty high on that list yeah I I agree with you I think there is I do think there’s a problem in Major League Baseball um I think they need to be even more aggressive uh with their their shift bands um I think they need to to be more aggressive with different things with re search that can get offense back in the game is pitchers are just too good and it’s it’s they they’ve done a lot of good things to make the product more enjoyable um with obviously the pitch clock with getting base running back in the game um with um you know limiting the pickoffs and the bigger bases and all that but yeah I mean the batting average is like what 40 points down from 50 years ago and I I don’t see it just correcting itself naturally either uh I it might get even worse than it is right now so they they they’ve got a problem there I agree I I I 100% agree and I would just say that that I think that there’s going to be some people that blame some people are going to blame the the hitters for the launch angles and only caring about hitting home runs and all these things certainly the shift was a part of that analytics are probably an O I don’t want to say a huge part but it’s got some semblance of Trace as to why the the averages are down when you you have all of this data on players and where they hit it and when they hit it and what count they hit it in you’re going to probably get them out more times than not it’s just that I would I would venture to Guess that clearly pitchers have outpaced hitters when it comes to development or the ceiling of development that you could possibly have within this game pitchers have become significantly better that’s just the facts I have a hard time believing Nick and I know that there’s going to be some people that are older than me that would disagree I just have a hard time believing that today’s athlete today’s position player is is worse than the position players of 20 years ago I just can’t get behind that I do think that if you took the position players of 20 years ago and I’m not talking about like the Hall of Fame players I’m talk about your normal players and you put them in today’s game I bet you find some ridiculous stats that uh that some guys would have been what league average back then or would be horrific today but again that’s here nor there it doesn’t matter the reds are who they are we’re going on a side tangent about Major League Baseball and where it’s going and all that but the end of the day I just this team’s not not good at the plate and I’m not GNA I’m not going to fall for the trick again don’t let me do it do not let me do it I I I do not at one point this year I do not want to ever think again that this offense is decent I know you’re going to sit here and tell me their league average which is fine I’m not going to believe it I think they’re close I think they’re stuff like Ops I think they’re like 22nd I think home runs they’re like 20th um I think the base running is the thing that everyone thinks they’re they’re terrible at has helped a lot with with run uh run production I think when you look at team as like 22nd or 23rd Ops that’s 60th to run scored I think that the base running um has quite a bit to do with um um you know why why they’ve scored as many runs as they are but um I don’t know we’ll see and they have faced they have faced tougher pitching um they’ve got they’ve faced a lot of their tougher pitching this year early in the season um and I know people don’t want to hear that but that’s the truth um they faced their their tougher competition already they’ve already faced the Dodgers the Phillies um although they’re going to see them this year so um I I know it doesn’t mean anything towards the second half that they’ll hit bad pitching but they will face more bad pitching they’re going to face bad pitching this at least the next four days and they’ll have a chance to hopefully flip the script on that yeah let’s get intoh what they have to do towards the end of the show obviously we’ll have the the who what when where and why as always uh but before we do that we’ll get into some individual players Noel V Marte is a name that obviously became a big storyline uh in the eighth inning when he made his air even more so maybe more importantly is just the way he looks at the plate and doesn’t look comfortable it does not look like what he looked like towards the end of last season and I am going to be hesitant and I’m not going to do this until it’s a significant amount of time and by significant we’re talking a whole another probably six months from now at least or six months of gameplay not six months total but six months of gameplay before I say steroids or or any kind of peeds were the reason as to why he was a good player or hitter there might be a mental struggle though quite frankly of uh of the whole situation that happened and him trying to prove himself I I don’t know if that’s it or maybe he is overmatched I I don’t know I venture to Guess that it’s probably the the former of what I said but your overall thoughts on Marte you probably haven’t got a chance to see him a whole lot the last few days but just uh he just doesn’t look like himself I’ve saw enough yeah um yeah I I just I can’t believe how bad he’s been defensively and it it it feels almost like like and this is a feeling I I I don’t want to you know I I know you can get too emotionally invested in things like this and kind of see things not for how they are it feels like he’s almost being careless defensively which again that’s just how I’m watching and feeling I’m not saying it’s the actual what he’s doing but he feels like he’s almost being careless and it’s like for a guy that was suspended for 80 games you would think when you come back and you get an opportunity to go right back to the major leagues man you’d be like all right I gotta prove myself I gotta I Gotta Be You Know doing everything I can I got to make all the routine plays I can’t screw around at all it feels like he’s kind of been a little careless defensively again it might just be a feeling that might be part of his his game and it looks that way when he’s not in in Rhythm um and all that type of stuff but that that’s how it feels like to me at least I think it’s a fair point I would say that I think what you mentioned towards the end is a is is probably the assessment that I would make I’m not going to go out of the limb and you’re not doing that either but I’m just going to be clear in saying that like we’re not suggesting that he doesn’t care he’s not trying hard I just think that and it does his game style and the way that he plays lends itself to to looking in my opinion semi laaz now there is a certain segment of people and I’m not saying that they’re totally wrong there is a certain segment of people that don’t like the don’t like that style of play anyways because it doesn’t get you anywhere it doesn’t really do anything for you but it’s just the way they’ve grown up playing I I see it it’s not that’s not a Dominican thing that’s that’s that’s just a that’s a worldwide thing quite honestly I see it in high school at times where it’s like kids are trying to to almost look good making a play versus just making the play and to be clear Noel Marte for all accounts should be a good Defender I did get a DM though and you know there’s there’s there’s times where I I I just let the DMS go by and I don’t think they’re that big of a deal uh but a guy said he was at the game today and he said that Noel was he throw he threw like three or four balls during warm-ups when they were just doing like the throws from first base in the middle of the Innings he threw three or four balls over the first baseman’s head I so in saying that there there could have been a weird situation today where he just didn’t feel comfortable throwing the ball and he was just kind of I’m not going to use the Y word uh if you know you know I’m not going to use the Y word but I but I will say there are times in your athletic career where something that you know that you can do and you’ve done your whole life it becomes in it becomes o unbearingly hard for you to do and you just try to just not think about it non nonchalantly do something real fast just to hope that muscle memory takes over maybe that was part of the throw I don’t know but I just hope that that’s not a reoccurring thing we we need him to be able to throw baseballs across the diamond now to be clear I didn’t see the I didn’t see any of the warm-ups this was all hearsay and I only see one bad throw in a game but this isn’t the first time that he’s kind of looked a little goofy over there at third base trying to throw a ball across the diamond either I don’t know man I you just that’s why it’s tough to rely on young guys isn’t it Nick because you just don’t know what you’re GNA get man yeah I don’t I don’t know how you feel but you keep running him out there I I don’t I don’t see any benefit to sending him down to Triple A for a couple reasons number one it’s free service time so he he gets nothing out of this so you’re not you know you’re not sitting down and being like oh we’re going to get more service time later he already burned his year so you might as well use him here up here number two he’s still probably the best option I I don’t think Levon sto is going to be the big spark plug that’s GNA fix this team um thei Marte certainly has the capability of uh of getting hotter and and the last point and maybe the most important out of all of this is you need to see what he is you already have lost the season of seeing what Matt McLean is you’ve already lost the season of what seeing what Christian unian strand is you may have lost the season of seeing if TJ Fredo is for real for real for real um and like so you need to at least like have one of your guys be able to get some date on him and see all right is this a guy that we can count on moving forward so you got to write it out but I agree it’s it’s a painful watch right now I’m not not saying it’s not it’s not fun um watching him um but you just have to hope and and pray that he can kind of figure it out at some point I agree I agree totally and I would just say that that this isn’t a place where you should be all right this is how I this is this is this is how I feel a good organization would be and this is how I feel like where we’re at right now and I’m not trying to kill the res and say they’re not a good organization but I think that that’s kind of how I genuinely feel at times in regards like a winning traditions and all that it’s just that I don’t think that a very very very proud winning organization would would ever be in a position that the reds are in right now ever where they have to ultimately kind of just play guys in the big leagues just because they need to see what they have because it’s more or less like a Melting Pot it’s a molding situation really good organizations and again I’m not trying to kill them I’m just saying this is that’s how I feel deal it’s it’s always win at all cost it’s always we’re not worried about the future we’re here to win now and if the best person to win now is a 34y old player that again maybe he’s only here for a year but if that’s who it is the best that’s the best person to win that’s who plays now to your point Marte might still be the best player in that position and that’s what a good organization would do is play their best player but it feels like keep or we’re going to have to keep doing or putting our putting ourselves in a spot where we’re are going to play guys that have never really truly earned it but they’re going to get the longer leash because we’re just hoping and praying it feels like they’re the five-star quarterback at some school that doesn’t get a five-star quarterback all that often so they’re going to just hold on to this piece as long as they can even though it kind of seems like they’re not playing like a five-star quarterback and we got some guys that areed supposed to be good that aren’t playing like the way that we were hoping they were going to play Marte is one of them and you know the rest of the guys have gotten hurt but CES wasn’t playing all that well either if we’re being completely honest with ourselves like he was I don’t want to say a bust but he was pretty a pretty big disappointment before he got hurt um Ellie’s been obviously a bright spot and that’s fantastic but then you get into the whole situation Nick where it feels like you’re uh wasting is not the right wasting is kind of the word that comes to but just like you’re wasting a great season from this kid and there’s nothing to show for it other than the fact that we can be proud that he’s on our team and then the rest of the roster maybe maybe big Leaguers maybe not and to talk about the pitching staff to be clear but Noel ve to finish on him really quickly it it is it is what it is as they say uh which is kind of a poetic line from the uh from the other steroid user Roger Clemens uh in his whole trial case I don’t know about Noel V jury still out but it’s a shame that we watch a a professional franchise to where we kind of just have to ride it out and that’s just the spot we’re in I don’t know whose fault it is we can argue about whose fault it is but I would like at some point when I watch the Cincinnati Reds that we don’t have a bunch of projects on the field simple as that I think we also should acknowledge that it was always likely that Noel V Marte wasn’t going to look anywhere close to as good as he looked at at the end of last year cuz I think we were all surprised with how well he performed when he came up CU last year in the minor leagues he had a good season in the minor leagues but he didn’t have an Ellie day La Cruz a Matt mlan Christian andazi onr like those guys were all over a thousand Ops in the miners Marte was like in the 800 so he came up and he kind of surprised us all I think that I’m I believe just as much in marte’s future as I did before but this season I think it was always going to be he was the one guy that I thought was going to have the most Growing Pains out of any of the um the projected starters going into this year yeah yeah I mean I but I guess the bigger question would be when is it time for these guys to grow up and be the guys that we need them to be for us to be competitive like that’s and I I don’t know I mean that’s that’s a hard question I know but maybe I mean is it 2025 I mean like are we gon to just for instance next year you roll out Matt mlan you roll out CES you roll out Marte you roll out TJ fredle and let’s just say I mean is it fry going to be here is Will Benson going to be here but let’s just say you ask all those guys to play again and inevitably maybe three or four of those guys or two or three of them let you down again is that part for the course is that good that’s bad like at some semblance of a point we only have hunter green for so long we only have Nick Lolo for so long we only have um Ellie I mean I know Ellie’s we got some time with Ellie so I’m not but there’s only so much time we have with these guys that we’re excited about if Rett louder and I and I know what you’re GNA say and I don’t say I know what you’re gonna say but I know the other Viewpoint is that you’re going to have guys that replace those guys that are just as good if you continue to develop a farm system but big league talents Big League talent and I think it’s harder than we all want to admit to replace real big league Talent which is why the teams that spend a lot of money usually win a lot because they just go out and buy The Proven Big League Talent um it’s a longwinded me for winded way of me saying Nick crawl is gonna have to do something and he’s not going to be able to miss you know that’s the thing that sucks for Nick craw is he’s not going to have the ability go out and miss and sign a a you know a Hayward like the Chicago Cubs did he’s not going to be to do that he’s not going to be able to pull a Yankees and sign Rizzo and he’s hurt for for multiple basically you know most of the time at the end of the day I think they’re going to go have to go out on a limb and take some big swings at this thing to try to fix this offense or and or the lackluster of consistency of an offense um or or or else we’re going to be doing the same song and dance again next year personally that’s how I feel yeah I mean mean the good news for long term is is that you not tied up with a bunch of contracts so you could still go out and sign people and all the position players that you have right now all have options I mean these guys could all get sent down at the down at Triple A um I mean hell even Jake fry still has an option now I mean I don’t think the Reds would pay him the amount of money he’s going to get in arbitration to send him down next year but you can sign whoever and hopefully have it’s just it’s just wild because we we we all were like where are these guys going to play three months ago and now it’s like can we please find a pull a an outfield out of our hat you know I mean it’s just it’s it’s crazy how you know quickly it changed I will say though I mean I don’t really think the Reds really like missed on any of their signings I mean calorio ups and downs right now he’s in a pretty big slump but Pagan would be the Miss but he got hurt I mean that’s know literally the Martinez I think he’s been great Montes has been been as good as you could have hoped for for for what you paid for him for a short-term deal too that’s the biggest piece of it is that you didn’t go out and have to sign a starting pitcher to five years you sign him to one year um so like they didn’t really miss on any of these guys I just think they needed more than than they thought but I I just I also don’t think there was this big long line of people that were saying well they needed a whole lot more than they did because we thought that we’d have a lot more and it just it it evaporated incredibly quickly and it’s frustrating because you’re not going to have years like this every year where you have this kind of starting pitching Health everyone talks about wasting a year of ell de the Cruz and I get that to an extent what I think you’re wasting more of is a year where you just have had really good starting pitching health and that does not happen every year and you can have like the Dodgers have had are probably the best example of a team that’s had so much ridiculous starting pitching depth into the miners and even they’ve kind of have faltered they they’ve had to run through like 12 pitchers in a year so that that’s the the biggest like uh I guess heartbreak for me this year yeah I I we all feel this way I I I think every reasonable fan knew that there was a chance of regression every reasonable fan knew that that all of these young guys they weren’t all going to pan out we all knew that I I really do think that I don’t think that anyone came into the season now maybe a few that drank like may maybe maybe like even even like buying into the hype whatever turn term you want to use here I still don’t think if you bought the hype you thought to yourself coming into the season that between will Benson TJ fredel Jake fry Spencer steer CES Ellie Marte mlan ldo quite frankly uh hunter green I don’t think you thought all of those were going to be great but I also didn’t think it was you you the the the part that really hurts is that you just never thought in a million years going into spring training that it would end up being this bad more or less you know it’s one thing to hope for the optimistic side but it’s another thing to get delivered the goods and it’s actually way worse than what you expected it to be you know um and that’s where we’re at and the only reason not to call 988 or text it about the Cincinnati Reds is simply because of the injuries and and you like it or not like give you a little semblance of hope that if you actually had all these guys healthy that maybe things would be different but that’s not guaranteed and we all know that and that’s the deepest darkest place we could go is like well what happens if mlan isn’t that guy because that’s what sucks about the whole thing is more or less we haven’t gotten answers on a lot of these guys that we need answers from and whether or not one season you could justify that mlan was going to be a perennial Allstar or if Brandon Williamson was going to actually be a big league starter or whoever else you want to throw in the hat that was questionable coming into this season that I just named everybody the biggest problem of it all is that you don’t know any you still don’t know and that sucks that genuinely sucks because if Matt McLean comes out next year and hits 220 Nick me and you can sit there and be like why are we suckers this guy hit 220 in Chattanooga he had one good run like he had one good stint in the big leagues right what he what he play four months Nick five months I get what you’re saying and I heard you and Craig kind of talking about this a little bit yesterday I do push back a little bit on it because well well yes you don’t know what all these guys are it’s not like the reds are this massive Gap away from being competitive right now either R have positive run differential right now the second best run differential in the division so it’s like but I’m get like there’s with all these players on the I sure some of them may not pan out but certainly some of them would would help you close that Gap because the Gap is not very far whether anyone wants to admit it whether everyone say this is the worst team in the history of baseball if you actually look at like the Run differential they’re not the worst team in baseball I’m not saying they’re the worst team in baseball but I think ultimately it’s like maybe my maybe my my the heights that I set for what I thought this young Corp could do and the crazy thing is that they can still do it to be abundantly clear it just seems like the reality set in for me a little bit as to you’re going to need some help is where I’m at with this I thought going into this season there was a chance this team could win 86 887 games with just the young kids that they had second year in the big leagues and then after that now we can go out and get a couple pieces and heaven forbid I dare say it and I’m sure that it’ll get clipped and people will make fun of me but heaven heaven forbid we become like an NL power and we can compete with the Dodgers and we can compete with the Phillies and we might just be like World Series legitimate contenders and we don’t have to rely on some Cinderella run you know we don’t have to be the George Mason of the of the NCAA tournament we can be North Carolina or whoever else whatever team you use that’s what I was hoping for and I think I’ve gotten myself back into a position where it’s like we’re going to need a little bit of luck and finding a diamond in the rough and pray to God we hit on the number two pick but we also are going to need to go out in a free agency and and in and and not miss and when it comes to when it comes to offensive help I could be like I said this is just my opinion um but more or less I think that it’s been a fair reasonable conversation on a Sunday night about the the state I guess if you want to call it that of the Cincinnati Reds yeah all [Music] right but I I don’t know my only other I just I think how many teams though in Major League Baseball going into year don’t need good luck like every team needs good luck every team needs things to go their way outside of what to win a World Series yeah to win a World Series yes Yankees even to make the playoffs the Yankees missed the playoffs last year yeah but you’re using one team I mean what if I said the Braves what if I said the Dodgers everyone everyone wants like the Dodgers have been have have have been abysmal like oh look at the Dodgers I can’t wait like they signed everybody and everyone’s like look at the Dodgers I can’t wait to cheer them on when they lose in the NL Division Series is like well I mean if you look back at what they’ve done the last 10 years I don’t mean to say this like too rudely they’ve legitimately done in the last 10 years what the Cincinnati Reds have done as a franchise in totality for the most part outside of the dead ball era maybe like yeah if you want to tell me back in the 50s go ahead but since 1990 on I’m just saying the Dodgers have have have more that they’ve done in in a in a seven or eight year stretch than we’ve done ever yeah the Dodgers are the one team that I think has has legitimately been able to figure it out year after year but I don’t I every other team like even the Atlanta Braves they’re eight games back in their division the Rangers they’re going to miss the playoffs they won the World Series last year I mean every team has to have things go right it’s just sucks for the Reds that this year is coupled on top of the last 30 like that’s that’s the that’s the thing that sucks it’s not 20124 it’s not the plan it’s not the plan was completely flawed and that was full of holes or whatnot it just it sucks that it happened on top of everything else that’s happened in the past yeah all right uh let’s jump into the next guy Alexis Diaz I don’t have anything to say negatively Alexis I thought he threw the ball fine clearly everyone’s going to point to the air that Marte made if he doesn’t make that err we’re talking about Alexis Diaz and how he threw the ball incredibly well and he did look good I thought that there was some semblance and I’ve tweeted it out because I just thought it was funny more or less than anything you know I did think it was semi hilarious that uh not hilarious in the sense I was hoping he was going to give up runs but as soon as we started bragging about him of course he gives up a home run a single and then uh then ultimately I got sidetracked as I share what I’ve been doing for the past seven hours here today but um got sidetracked and I realized that obviously he give it up another one but nonetheless I I I have no concerns of Lexus Taz I thought he looked good yeah it was it I was was so close to having a point on the show of wow Alexis Diaz looked really good the eighth inning you know he struck out the first two batters in dominant fashion it wasn’t like you know they got to three2 counts and he was nibbling around he just came right at him dominated him and then the Marte air sure you probably would have liked to see him your closer to be able to overcome an air but Alexis has been really great he was kind of due for something like that as well so I thought a pretty positive performance despite the the overall result from Alexis Diaz and it was kind of nice to see David Bell not have a fear of using him in that spot um because there may be times that that that’s needed this year just simply because the Red’s Mar of FR is not that big I think listen I I know that Charlie gold smith uh big big fan of Charlie and and he’s a friend of a lot of Chatterbox programs um I I just say this that Charlie tweeted out something that was basically saying that um pulling Graham Ashcraft in the fifth and then turning around and bringing in Diaz in the eighth kind of seems like it’s a pretty big clear evident sign of how desperate David Bell is and I don’t know if he used the word desperate but I’m paraphrasing I think I think that’s a little overblown I think that was more or less an opportunity to make sure you give Alexis Diaz an inning he has not thrown in a little while um he’s not thrown in even relatively big spot in a while so you know I thought it was just a guaranteed opportunity to get him some work Nick more less I don’t know if you thought the same I didn’t think he brought him in like thinking you know I I need Alexis Diaz because I need him to shut down the inning it’s like I need to bring in Alexis so I can make sure he gets some work yeah I mean he still would have had the ninth I think he wanted to use him in a spot that for sure mattered because if you don’t bring him in in the eighth and then someone gives him some runs then it may be in a spot where it really doesn’t matter I think it was probably a combination of both I do think he wanted to get him some work number one but I do think the spot in the eighth also there was some significance to that as well but yeah I mean overall I think Diaz is thrown the ball well I feel completely different than I how I felt um you know several weeks ago about Diaz I feel pretty confident in him and um the Reds need that because you know know Saturday was the first time or one of the first times that that this this Bullpen blown a game that that they they had control of um and the r just don’t have a margin fair to blow very many of those if they wouldn’t have any chance this year The Season’s not dead you know it’s really not it’s just a it’s just been a frustrating series and I think that there are times as fans we can we can probably put ourselves in a position where we’re frustrated and clearly tonight’s one of those nights hopefully they find a way to back bounce back um but it’s it’s a home stand Nick and in a home stand most people have an opportunity to go to the Ballard today didn’t look like there was too many people but if you’re trying to go down to Great American Ballpark Nick you got one place to go game time not downloaded the game time app you need to download it Nick you got anything that uh that you want to add yeah definitely needs a game time M IID imagine you probably could have got tickets on Sunday for about five bucks on the game time app with the the crowd that was there um game time app is an authorized ticket Marketplace in Major League Baseball that makes getting tickets even faster and easier prices on the game time map they actually go down the closer it gets to first pitch killer last minute deals all in pricing views from your seat and the lowest price guaranteed game time takes the guess workk out of buying MLB tickets they have all in pricing you can toggle this feature it shows you the total of front with no surprise fees a checkout the lowest price guaranteed or game time will credit you 110% of the difference take the guest work out buying tickets with Game Time download the game time app create an account use the code ciny for $20 off your first purchase terms apply again create an account redeem the code ciny C ncy for $20 off download the game time app today last minute tickets lowest price guaranteed guaranteed and as always mantherapy.org 988 text call if you need it gr mashcraft um it’s hard to say threw the ball well but it’s also you can’t discredit what he did I thought he kept the Reds in the game got out of a kind of a little bit of a tough Jam earlier in the game got a big double play to get himself out of an inning so I I mean overall maybe a b uh B minus C+ kind of felt like that’s the type of outing but this is kind of what you get with gram mcraft like this is the expectation at this point and I don’t know if that’s a good one but it’s one nonetheless I I much I guess I personally Nick I’d rather have someone like Ashcraft who’s and I know he’s dude maybe to blow up every so often but more or less he’s going to keep you in the game might throw five innings maybe give you six at best I’d rather have someone like that than to have some roller coaster guy who’s going to go eight Innings one game with one one you know one run and then the next two games he gives up six or seven runs in in an outing so your overall thoughts on Ashcraft I don’t have a whole lot to say I thought he was you know typical Graham yeah he was fine he was serviceable I mean kind of what the expectations should really be with him uh as a starter I think he’s probably going to get option tomorrow because the Reds have already announced Carson spers as their starter um on Wednesday Thursday’s the TBA which seems pretty obvious like it’s going to be Nick Lolo unless I miss something this weekend um while I was out playing hookie um so I’m assuming he gets he gets options gonna probably kind of Sting for ash crap because he didn’t really pitch that bad but I think he’s just probably the the odd man out right now yeah I mean at this point I’m not I don’t want to make it sound like I don’t care it’s just that the least of my worries have to do with uh with what they end up doing with the starting rotation and what they end up doing with the bullpen as a whole I don’t think that that house of cards will come falling down but if it does then it’s like a it’ll just burn you know but having said that my main my main concern is what we get from an offensive standpoint you want to talk about Nick Martinez he obviously came in the game did a good job um you know I I don’t I ran out of topics I didn’t have anything else here it’s fine um you got something else thr no I mean like the only thing I would say is like there are some small like listen if we want to complain about some things offensively um and and I know and I know like the last thing I want to do is like sound like I’m always complaining because I really I really try to be a level-headed baseball fan as much as I try to have fun and and I scream and yell from time to time I really try to put myself in the mind of what David Bell is thinking or doing or what the players are thinking and doing and sometimes I do get pissed off because I’ve thought of everything imaginable and I still can’t come to the conclusion as to what the hell they were doing or thinking not not from a physical ex execution standpoint but from a mental standpoint from just a the a brain capacity it standpoint David bday had an opportunity to get a guy over I know we don’t like bunting the the score is one to nothing Nick you get a guy on first base uh you got with all due respect to Blake Dunn he’s hitting you know a lot of times you make fun of guys when they’re hitting a buck something like oh he’s hitting a buck 20 he’s not even hitting a buck all right this dude is like back in the 1985 uh McDonald’s prices it’s like it’s like uh 76 or something like that whatever it is I’d like to think that he might be able to get guys over that’s number one number two is I also want to know why was Will why was Will Benson thinking about Bunning over Austin wins the third base with with the first pitch but then after the first pitch it was a failed attempt we decide that that’s not a good idea anymore again I’m not and and I also want to say I don’t know if that’s the right play anyways I know you’re damned if you do you’re damned if you don’t I gotta be hon if you get a guy on second base Nick and you got will Benson up Lefty on Lefty against one of the best lefties in entire Major League Baseball you know you’re already in a bad spot and then the guy behind him is hitting 076 I don’t know I don’t know if there’s a right play I I actually didn’t think the bunt was right but if you are going to try to bunt will Benson looked like he never attempted to bunt before in his life which maybe he hasn’t but it just that’s the small stuff that just is like I thought this was Major League Baseball and I’m not even going to try to be the guy that always like David Bell terrible coach look at this coaching staff they don’t ever teach these guys anything but it does become frustrating to watch yeah I I don’t I don’t know if they just felt like with two strikes it was just or with the with one strike that there was just no chance of him laying down the bunt but it’s just it’s unfortunate that will Ben is having a start against the Lefty and I know he got a hit today so so credit to him for having a good at bat and his other at bat but just it’s just unfortunate this is where this roster is that he has to play against a lefty because especially a lefty of scoes caliber yeah I mean it that’s why I say this offense is terrible I don’t know it just is simple as that all right let’s talk about something good we try to be positive for a second Ellie de Cruz Cincinnati Reds they get one Allstar appears um we get the we get the uh the I have a question do you think that this was a situation where the only reason Ellie was an All-Star was honestly just because the Reds needed an All-Star or do you think that he’s having enough of a season where you could warrant or an argument to say hey you know what he is an All-Star period I don’t care that if it’s only one player from the reds or not I mean he’s a four- win player right now I I think there there’s maybe a better case this should be the starting shortstop than being uh just only on there because he he uh he plays for the Reds um I don’t know anyone who quoting his batting average can just get lost I don’t I don’t care about that I mean this guy has been incredible um uh 15 home runs 43 stolen bases um like I said and uh Reds and four our good friend had a really just wild uh thing that he put out uh Ellie already in winds over replacement has more than any Reds position player since 2019 so the 2020 leader the 2021 leader the 2022 the 2023 leader all had less than Ellie has before and Ellie’s hasn’t made it the allstar break yet so um Ellie might end up six seven wins above replacement which is incredible um first youngest red to get to the all-star game since Johnny Bench I hope that kind of resonates with people that’s just how unprecedented what he’s doing at his age is um yeah I mean it’s just it’s awesome to see I hope I hope part of me hopes that hunter green gets added as an injury replacement I think there’s a good chance that he will there’s always a ton of pitchers that get added or not even injury replacement but guys that won’t be eligible I’d love to see HG green get added and then not pitch in the game not sure I actually want him to pitch outside of selfishly just I would enjoy it but from a real realistic standpoint i’ prefer he probably doesn’t pitch in the game because you might want him to start the first game after the All-Star break cuz again red barer air is just not very big right now I don’t like the idea of him pitching just in case something crazy happens either I know I sound like a little bit of a of a scared you know princess saying that but ultimately the the the All-Star Game means literally nothing so yeah I I prefer that he not pitch in that game but um you know I also know that probably would mean a lot personally to him so you fight that fight as a fan so I guess if ultimately he gets a chance to to throw I’ll hold my breath and hope that nothing happens and be happy for him that he got to throw in an All-Star Game and probably accomplish a childhood dream so there is that part of it uh in regards to uh anything left from Ellie’s perspective look I think he’s one of the most dynamic players in all of Major League Baseball without question I think a lot of the things that that he does very very well you don’t really get to see on the traditional stat lines you’re going to see a lot of people that are complaining just about the traditional stat line of Ellie you know and I do think that clearly him not putting the ball in play is probably is probably the biggest know downside to his game right now just because of how well he can run and you’d like to see him be able to you know cut down on the strikeouts but at the same time I’ve kind of come to grips with the idea that he’s a very very young player incredibly young player and we although not guaranteed we’d like to think that there’s going to be some development there and he winds up being a very good player uh that doesn’t happen some of the holes that he currently has albeit they they are very very small but I will say Nick the last thing I’m going to mention here with Ellie I do think at some point he might Shore up some of the holes that he currently has in his game but I think he’s going to lose a little bit of the edge of what makes him also Elite in some categories right now you know first step quickness and and and pure speed quite frankly and that just means I don’t know if his defensive range will always be this good and I don’t know if he’s going to steal this many bags uh when he gets into his quote unquote maybe prime or maybe on the back half of his prime so there is a little Pro and a con there I don’t know if it outweighs him getting better at the plate but it’s something to keep in mind but we’ve said it a thousand times on the show and I’ll say it a thousand more times even though people think I’m an Ellie hater if I if I criticize him at all for anything he’s the best player on this team and he’s a superstar there’s it’s not even it’s not even a debate Ellie has almost twice as much twice as many wins above replacement as the NL starting Short Stop Now Trey Turner has missed some time on the IL but Turner’s at 2.2 Ellie’s at 4.1 uh I was talking with Tom Nichols this weekend shout out to Tom just an incredible guy that awesome for the Red’s entire organization I I learned so much just this weekend but he was talking about Ellie De La Cruz and something that I hadn’t really caught he said he would expect that Ellie will slow down running in the second half and um if you look at Ellie’s uh statistics in the minor leagues he stole about half the amount of bases in the second half as he did in the first half and we don’t we don’t think about the the wear and tear on the body of of stealing that many bags um but but there is definitely that’s definitely a factor that comes into it so there’s a good chance that we don’t see Ellie run as much um in the second half of the season it’ll be interesting see how valuable of a player as he is without that running game I think he’ll still be a a good player I think there’s still more power potential that he’s going to tap into and I hope that maybe we see that um really take off in the second half and I say more he’s got 15 home runs that’s um pretty good nothing to be you know ashamed of or anything but I I think that there might be even more there that’s fair um listen I someone in the chat I just seen Lawrence uh Pennington appreciate the support says Ellie’s Ellie is only there because he can run I would say this like Steph Curry is only in the All-Star game because he can shoot you know like if you’re the World’s if you’re if you’re literally the world’s best at one thing and I don’t think Ellie’s there just because he can run I think he has other skill sets that make him a damn good baseball player he can he can he can pick it pretty well too point is is like I get the sentiment but I would just say that that’s fine no problem I mean I mean Joe burrow is a great quarterback just because he can throw like he’s he’s such a big part of the game with his feet and legs that he’s that he’s he’s almost an All-Star just because of that in my opinion but him being a good Fielder him being obviously a little bit of a power threat and him being relatively serviceable at the play he’s not a terrible hitter guys that puts him over the hump in my opinion to make him an All-Star he also has the uh most home runs among National League Short Stops so I think that might help a little bit uh he’s got the third most walks among National League shorts St there’s only five behind the leader so uh I think there’s a little bit more than just uh you know the cute little running game that he has yeah don’t pick on Ellie too long Nick will Nick will be ready triples most triple most most most triples is that a stat that that counts I don’t know if he has the most he probably yeah has have the most extra base hits then right yeah most extra base hits I don’t know seems like a little more than running well the extra base hits are because he runs fast Nick so shame on you yeah yeah all right let’s do this um second yeah all right let’s do this uh let’s do a little who what when where and why I’m going to tell you what I’ve been working on all day after that and uh we will uh we will toast the crowd on a Sunday night edition of chatter box Reds Nick who what when where and why all right Reds will start a four game series against the Colorado Rockies Rockies come in 32 and 58 Rockies have won three of their last four but they are just 11 and 22 uh since June 1st probables for the series uh Monday 710 start Abbott against Ryan feltner more on uh that match up in a second Tuesday 710 Frankie montis against Cal quantrol Wednesday also 710 Carson spes against Kyle Freeland and Thursday is a 110 start time TBA for the Reds I expect it’ll be Nick Lolo against Austin gomber Rocky’s lineup looks a little bit different than when we saw saw them at the beginning of June when the Reds swept them at Kors field Chris Bryan is on the iil Montero and buard have been optioned um to Triple A uh but a little bit more on this uh this pitching matchup uh first off um Ryan feltner of course the Reds did did see um Mr feltner and had a really good uh a good day um back on June 3D he went four and a third Red’s got 10 hits and eight runs off of him um candelario hit a home run Benson’s two for two Elli and steer one for three and then India and Stevenson uh one for two and then Andrew Abbott of course he’s having a um a good season uh big week for the Reds Trace I mean you got two teams um I know the Tigers aren’t the best team in in the world by any stretch of the imagination but they do have 10 more wins than the the Rockies and the Marlins these are the two worst teams in the National League they have 32 wins uh Reds and tigers both have 42 wins um so yeah I mean look an opportunity for the Reds this week um to to uh make up the the ground that they they they lost over the weekend well they’re going to have to if if they want to stay within what I think is the the race to to find a chance to play in the postseason I know that you could argue there’s plenty of baseball left you haven’t even gotten to the second half but at some point you can’t keep saying that there’s more baseball you got to find a way to win and if you’re not going to beat the teams that are in front of us right now uh you know with the Rockies and the Marlins then who are you going to beat and I know this team has found a way to beat some really good teams this year and that’s great but uh the truth of the matter is you have to win at home we know this and you got to beat bad teams and they have an opportunity to do both check both of those box this entire week they got off to a terrible start I would also say I caution us and I think that at times us Reds fans me included got some blinders on Nick we always make fun of the pirates pirates have done just as much as us have in the last 20 years um I would also say the Detroit Tigers this year kind of fall in that same boat let’s let’s stop acting like the Detroit Tigers are horrific I don’t know if you looked at their record but it’s kind of similar I don’t know if you’ve looked but I’m not trying to be that guy I’m just saying that you know we are who we are as well let’s not act like we’re World beaters uh when we Face another team that also doesn’t quite have a great record either uh we’re two you know pigs just fighting in the mud to see which one comes out on top hopefully the Reds find a way Nick to to kind of write their wrong like you said um they’re going to have to and we’ll find out if they do and if they do you know what it’ll this fan base will come right back soaring in and uh thank the Lord the National League’s bad I guess that’s the only other concern I have moving forward is how long is this National League going to be this bad for I would assume at some point you’re going to have to win 84 85 86 games to get in the postseason 80 wins 81 wins 82 wins isn’t going to cut it uh like it seems like this year might but nonetheless Nick long-winded way way of me saying it’s put up or shut up no excuses yeah the big opportunity I mean I again like I get people are tired of the schedule talk I am too it doesn’t guarantee wins just like this tiger series I think I said it on uh Thursday after the red swep the Yankees they there was nothing guaranteed the weekend against the Tigers but I’d rather be playing the Rockies and the Marlins Great American Ballpark than the Dodgers and Phillies like I don’t I mean it’s certainly a better opportunity for the Reds will they capitalize I don’t know if you told me the Reds go 7 and0 this week it be like hey I could see it happening if you tell me the Reds go two and five this we like yep I can see it happening I have no idea really what to expect I just know the Reds have a good opportunity here um what do you think the Reds have to do to start to get to where Nick crawl decides he’s going to be a buyer what do they got to do I mean I I’m not sure there’s anything that the Reds could do that’s going to make them the kind of buyer that this fan base wants like I just I don’t see the Reds I don’t see the Reds having a two- game lead like say the Reds went crazy get a two game lead in the wild guard spot just have a incredible run the next three weeks I don’t think they’re going out and getting Brent Rooker or or whoever the fill in whoever the other name is I just don’t see the Reds doing that I I don’t think that’s the way they’re going to approach this um and and I I said this during before the season started the reds are going to try to build their team in the offseason now will they go out and maybe try to find whatever the Sam mole equivalent is to a a position player yeah I think they would do that if they’re in it I think they would try to find some moves that make sense but they’re not going to give a bunch of their Prospect Capital and they can’t you they can’t do that the Reds have to have a great farm system unless you are going to have a $300 million payroll you have to have an elite farm system and the r just can’t be affording to trade away prospects to maybe give them a better chance this year but even a player like Brent Rooker how much higher does he really make the red ceiling like the Reds have to win with the guys that they have Brent Rooker would help but he’s not going to take this team from here to here he’s going to take this team from like here to here like it’s going to be a a a marginal move maybe a win maybe a win maybe two wins if you’re lucky people are going to hate us for saying it and I and and I know I listen you know what sucks is that we’re never we’ve not done this show long enough to give ourselves an opportunity to see both sides of the aisle in my opinion on this whole situation that is where the reds are at and where we’d like for them to be and what we think that they should do moving forward and etc etc we’ve not really ever yelled and screamed or got passionate about themm moving prospects to get help now I think that’s mostly because we’re afraid of what we’re seeing right now happening to this organization down the road to try to win when they aren’t very good already and I know people that’s hard to swallow and you’ve been waiting forever to for for you we’ve all been waiting forever but this team isn’t good why do you want us to waste anything I know you might say these prospects will never pan out I know you might say well you can go trade this guy that guy a prospect here prospect there if they’re not worth anything then why the hell does the other organization want them and if if if we need to get something of value in return to make our team going to supposedly get us to this next level why would they trade something of value like that to us for something that isn’t valuable at all the truth of the matter is we’re getting closer and closer to this deadline not doing this show yet Nick but if we’re going to suck let’s embrace it let’s just say it is what it is you get rid of some guys you trade them all you literally trade them all you get rid of Montas you get rid of uh I mean I could go down a plethora of guys and I’m not going to do it because I think that’s a good it’s a better it’s a it’s I’m gonna save it for another show cuz if I say somebody and someone gets mad because I said it then so be it but we have some uh super chats to get to here tonight that I want to get to thank you to people to tuning in tonight listen this is a tough this is a tough night to tune in go ahead one quick please can I can I say one quick thing I will push back a little bit though if if the reds are well I don’t think they should make some crazy move if they’re still within a couple games I don’t think they should be blowing this up if they’re still within because they do have that that pitching depth that doesn’t grow on trees that you don’t get get every year and that could help them in the dog days of August so I I’m not I’m not against them staying completely just staying Pat and doing nothing if again this is a big if they’d have to probably I don’t know be within two or three games I think I I think that’s probably where I would I would want them to be but I don’t think they should be trading trading Montes and trading Martinez and and Cruz and all of that now now I will say if the Reds had uh Luis Castillo and they were three games out I might feel a little different but the difference is the reds don’t have a player that’s going to get them this massive crazy return they have players that get them nice prospects but they don’t have a player that’s going to get them Noel Marte Edwin a Royo um you know uh etc etc yes but they they can get something back is what I’m saying that might be a lottery ticket that might be luck it might just be like wow this guy figured it out and somehow someway a guy that used to be a top prospect that kind of stumbled around organizations he just figures it out and boom he’s he’s for who for for Fernando crw for Nick martinz for Montas for what that’s where I’m at and I know I know I’m going to get crushed for that but we aren’t good we’re not good and you’re not going to convince me that we’re not and I mean that’s my opinion to be clear doesn’t mean you have to believe in it just how I feel I feel like we have a bag of basically we don’t have it we just don’t have it we’re not good enough you know I kind of honestly feel like I’m at like a NFL combine and I’m looking around and I just ran a four a 467 as a running back and I’m watching all these other guys run down the same track as me and I’m thinking to myself you know it’s just time to go get a real job that’s kind of where I’m at with this team and I know that that sounds like an over reactionary thing I’ve been there for a little while doesn’t mean you have to believe it it’s just how I feel and I’m not here to say like oh look at Trace he’s selling the future him and Nick Kirby ball of optimism this is going to be better next year next year next year I’m just trying to be realistic that’s all I’m looking at the standings right now you know you’re GNA have to like with all due respect you got the Cubs who have who have not played well this season they’re tied with you I I I they’re tied with you uh you have half game back half game back thank you Nick uh you have the Nationals they’re still in last place they are they are alone in last place Trace do not sell them short fine they’re last place you have the Nationals you have the Pirates you have the Giants you have the Mets and you have the Diamondbacks that’s just to be the last Loser by the way that’s to be the last loser that’s not even to to be in the playoffs then you have to find a way to beat the Padres who I will I’ll let everyone know they’re four games over 500 right now and then you have to get to the Cardinals who are five games over 500 right now four games over 500 my bad but point is do you think this team is even going to get back to 500 at some point maybe we will maybe I’m being too pessimistic we shall find out um final thoughts on my end I’m going to do some supers here really quickly like I said I was going to Ned Flanders says uh do we just let Marte done Benson get all the at bats they can for the rest of the season assuming they’re still part of the 2025 plan why send them back down maybe bring even more up um Ned I think at some point you know what you got even if they’re not in the big leagues yet you know what you got you know I I I I I think this the idea of thinking you have to put people in the big leagues to see if they can stick or let’s just see what we got as a cute little game I don’t think it means a whole lot to me personally let’s face it the guys that came up here that played relatively well they also played relatively well in the minor leagues it’s not like we had some random player that came up here and and it was like wow I never expected this guy to be you know a great player in the big leagues when he never figured out in the minor I I’m I’m to answer his question in short no I’m not just leaving guys like Blake Dunn up here just because like I’m I’ve seen enough of Blake Dunn If he if he does this for another two weeks yeah what a disappointment um Blake dun and my guy Jacob heres has been just because of the incredible Seasons both of those guys had last year for both of them to have played as bad as they played and it’s a very small sample for both I don’t think I’m not giving up on Blake Dunn long term by any means but those two guys been you know a pretty this point there’s been a lot of The Fringe players this year that have been pretty big disappointments and I’ll say this and I probably a lot of people are GNA agree with me I think what’s happened in the Red’s minor league system this year is more disappointing than what’s happened in the major leagues yeah it’s been a tough year been a tough year there’s really not been a whole lot of bright spots down there either we being completely Frank like it just uh it’s one thing after another no they’re like but again maybe it’s just a bad season like that’s the crazy thing about all this it could just be one bad year and it was a coincidental thing that we have all of these guys that just had a bad year at the same time now I I doubt that it’s everybody but I do want to say Nick as the pessimistic guy on the show Mostly I do don’t I do think it will not be this bad always I think this is just some weird phenomenon where it’s just like when it rains it pours nothing’s going right right now let’s all take a deep breath it kind of feels like we just just we just need to take a go go to bed Nick wake up the next day and just it’ll be better you know it feels like I’m not trying to say just cancel the season type thing but it’s just like whatever get me to March of next season and let’s try this again and it it is important to remember that teams like the Dayton Dragons almost that entire roster is younger than the rest of the league like they they have eight they have 19 and 20 year olds where a lot of the league is 21 and 22 year old so I I really hope the Reds minor leagues has a much better second half because that to me is more way more discouraging than what’s happened in the big leagues because for the most part what’s happened in the big leagues has been injury related it hasn’t been performance related outside of like will Benson and Frey maybe maybe I mean Frey’s been okay he just has no P yeah uh excellent point you just made who has been dis appointment really not many nobody that’s a weird thing that just happened live on this show I don’t know yeah maybe not the bones the bones of people’s bodies yeah Fitness yeah and the medical staff as always here we go Daniel Myers uh we need to sign two power Outfield bats the postseason hopes are gone uh I I’m not saying you’re wrong I just don’t think it’s going to going to happen so I’m not not to say don’t go to bed happy tonight but just this just not in the cards man like and the in the off season if he’s talking about the off season that’s different I thought well he said he said we need to sign two power Outfield bats at the postseason oh no no no I read that wrong you’re right I think you’re right maybe we how did you read that yeah I read that as I mean signing does makes me think it was offseason yeah I could see the Reds if they fall back a little more trading candelario and then going out and just trying to re basically do the same offseason again and maybe try to just get straight Outfield bats um but yeah yeah I mean I yeah I I think the Reds will be aggressive again on the free agent Market this off season um I think they might even be more aggressive than they were this year just because this year they they had so many unknowns that was that it was you had to it was I still kind of have them though that’s the problem takes it wrong yeah but everyone takes it they just had so many guys that they kind of had to play to see what they had um that it would have been really hard if you signed someone um that you’re not even sure is better right I mean that that’s kind of the the weird spot they were in is if you went out and you signed I’m trying to think of an example sign like JD Martinez well yeah yeah if he side will Myers two whoever the will Myers again was 2.0 is that player really going to be better than what they had and and sure they would have been now in hindsight yeah but in the offseason would anyone have actually thought that I I don’t I don’t think you would have I completely agree yeah you don’t you just don’t know you you don’t want to go out and sign a guy that you spend a decent amount of money on and you realize that what you had in the you realize will Benson’s better than them which that’s not the case clearly but going into season nobody was nobody knew that uh all right Mr Juan coming in with a nice one I like this one he said Elli and Juan SoDo worked out together last winter Juan sto to the Reds in 2025 I’ll say This Ellie deot Cruz Matt mlan those two specifically if they play if Matt mlan plays the capabilities that he played the last season definitely Ellie maybe even just Ellie they’re going to have the same impact that Joe burrow and Jamar Chase had in my opinion on the Cincinnati Bengals where it becomes a little bit of a destination to go to Cincinnati I think that that’s true I think that there are going to be people players around this league that are going to be like you know what that’s a kind of a fun little small Market team they got some really good players let me be Go like Let I’m not saying that they’re going to come just because of Ellie but but it’s c certainly gives them a better chance than if they just had a bunch of no-name players that in my humble opinion of course and dollars and cents always talk more than anything else at the end of the day I’ll say this this might surprise some people uh but woto is 25 years old I’d rather spend $500 million and sign wotto I don’t think the reds are going to be able to learn ju sto even if they paid him more than anyone else but let’s say in a world that they actually could I’d rather pay Wan sto 500 million then sign someone like Xander Bogarts who’s on the wrong side of 30 to 300 million so I I don’t again like Juan stto is such an interesting player because he’s at a young age of free agency which is why I treat Ellie De La Cruz different than just about anyone else because he you when you’re when he starts free agency he’s so much younger than anyone else you want to sign players young you don’t want to sign players on when they’re 30 years old to seven eight year nine deals but again I’d rather sign wano 500 500 million 14 years you’re gonna get a lot of prime years out of that but I don’t see it happening yeah well that’s where you need it’s a that’s a whole another conversation for another day that just makes my heart hurt mostly you know ell Ellie the Dion Sanders of uh Major League Baseball recruiting yeah I it mostly just hurts my heart cuz I know that inevitably like it’s not a I feel like I could do a whole show on this I don’t think it’s fair financially to ask the castolin to do to do the things that other teams do on a regular basis because the financials of what happens in Cincinnati are nowhere near comparable to what happens in La Philly in New York and even Texas for that matter but it does seem like anymore in order to own a franchise that’s going to have some semblance of success on the field you either need to play in a league that has a salary cap or you need to have ownership groups that treat it as a hobby and they have a lot of money and I don’t think that that’s a disrespectful thing to say towards the castolin At All by saying that they don’t have a lot of money but when you put them up against what they’re up against they just don’t and I don’t think it’s fair to be like hey go go spend above and beyond what you financially can afford period And I know people are going to be like they’re they’re do you see how much the the the franchise is worth I’m not trying to be like a a jerk when I say this but like from a business standpoint that doesn’t mean anything until you sell it it doesn’t help you just it’s like your house if you don’t have another house to go live in and and you and you and you have a house that’s worth a ton of money just just because you just because it’s worth a ton of money doesn’t mean that you might be able to afford to pay you know the electric bill that month you you can sell the house and obviously be fine but you can’t have the house and still pay the bills um that sometimes can be a problem and that’s a real hard conversation to have for a whole another day and I know that nobody really wants to get into that but it is what it is in Cincinnati I feel there’s two two different things here I feel like number one yes they could spend more money there’s no question about it they could they could get their payr up over 150 I don’t or maybe 200 wouldn’t be a problem but this is the thing that I never get an answer from if the Reds decided tomorrow we’re g to become we’re g to max out our spending we’re g to spend every single penny that we possibly can on on our big league payroll do you really think that the Chicago Cubs are just going to be like you know what we’re going to stay at the exact same level we’re going to let the Cincinnati Reds spend the same amount as us you think their fans are going to be okay with that no they have so many more resources so all it’s going to happen is you’re going to spend more but then the other teams are going to spend more there’s always going to be a massive gap between the Cincinnati Reds and the teams of that caliber and the teams that have billions more dollars of Revenue coming in it’s there’s always going to be a gap no matter how much you spend I thought I also think it’s semi-reasonable the last analogy I’ll use on this point really fast because I think it’s a fascinating conversation because it’s just it’s there’s a lot of layers to this I I think that it’s also fair to compare it to like a race um so like there’s a lot of people that that maybe are into NASCAR maybe they’re not into NASCAR maybe they’re into F1 maybe they’re not I don’t know but my my analogy is this like let’s say me and you have have enough money to get in to get into NASCAR right well obviously you have like the the Hendrick Motorsports and you have Richard Petty racing you have all these guys that are well established right they have they have a ton of money I think you I think it’s fair to be like hey do you want to mortgage the financial future of our entire investment and our entire thing to try to to try to go after and compete with these guys just to inevitably know that you’re still going to have a slower race car probably and the only real way that you can honestly beat those guys Nick is if you get an edge somewhere else and you have a better race car driver or something like that because you’re never going to be able to outspin them on the best technology you’re just going to have to beat them in other areas have to beat him maybe at the pit stop you’re going to have to beat him in the in the in the actual driver of the race car itself and the funny thing that sucks about it Nick is as soon as they realize it’s the it’s the driver that’s the that’s the that’s the Difference Maker guess what they go do Nick they go and they they just buy the driver out oh the analytics are allowing the the small Market teams to catch up to the big league teams no problem we’ll hire the bigest the biggest and the best analytical Department that one can buy that’s the real issue with the sport but it’s a conversation for another day again I love this game I wish that it was a little bit better when it came to equality but it’s the game we’re stuck with I still think the Reds have a puncher chance I do think that the small Market teams have a puncher chance but we can agree that we can stop just screaming and yelling about the fact that our ownership groups this that and the next there’s a bigger problem at hand and I’m not saying this ownership group deserves a pass on the things that they’ve said in the past and I’m definitely not saying that they’ve done an unbelievable job by any stretch of the imagination I’m just saying if you look at it with clear eyes open mind we can all agree that it’s a tough spot it is and I and I and maybe I’m asking too much by saying you know what one day I hope before I die some random billionaire loves the Cincinnati Reds for some dumb godforsaken reason and they decide to treat it as a hobby and they have a ton of money and that’s the only chance you got really be honest yeah all right uh so last thing I’m going to say I’m going to run the outro music here is uh Nick has been doing a good job on the podcast as always please go download those uh give him a rating give him a review most importantly though is that I have been I’m not exaggerating when I say this I’ve I’ve spent about eight hours in in an MLB film room this isn’t a bit I’m not trying to be funny I’m being dead serious I’m going to try to put together the best contact play video that you could have at your disposal if you’re a Red’s fan I’m talking from 2023 on every single play I’ll do a good job of making it to where it’s not a novel I’ll try to make it concise and quick and just explain the differences as to what happens and when and why you would want to do it here and why you wouldn’t want to do it here and whether it really matters here or whether it doesn’t matter there and what a contact play even is cuz I’m sure that there might be even some discrepancies with that I’ve been working on that for about 7 hours my hope is to get that done tonight but I got about 120 videos that I got to figure out which ones are important and which ones aren’t you’ll be you you’ll be right there to find it you’re watching Chatterbox Reds we love you go Reds outro n oh [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music]
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Story we are following from ESPN:
Reds host Detroit Tigers, look to break home losing streak
ByData Skrive
Jul 7, 2024, 04:01 am
Detroit Tigers (41-48, fourth in the AL Central) vs. Cincinnati Reds (42-47, fourth in the NL Central)
Cincinnati; Sunday, 1:40 p.m. EDT
PITCHING PROBABLES: Tigers: Tarik Skubal (9-3, 2.45 ERA, 0.93 WHIP, 119 strikeouts); Reds: Graham Ashcraft (5-4, 5.45 ERA, 1.47 WHIP, 55 strikeouts)
: LINE Tigers -142, Reds +120; over/under is 8 runs
BOTTOM LINE: The Cincinnati Reds host the Detroit Tigers looking to stop their four-game home skid.
Cincinnati is 20-25 in home games and 42-47 overall. The Reds have the fifth-ranked team ERA in the NL at 3.87.
Detroit is 41-48 overall and 22-26 on the road. The Tigers have a 19-3 record in games when they hit at least two home runs.
The matchup Sunday is the third time these teams meet this season.
TOP PERFORMERS: Jonathan India has 19 doubles, a triple and six home runs for the Reds. Spencer Steer is 9-for-36 with two doubles and four home runs over the last 10 games.
Riley Greene has 17 doubles, five triples and 17 home runs for the Tigers. Colten Keith is 9-for-40 with a triple and three home runs over the last 10 games.
LAST 10 GAMES: Reds: 5-5, .207 batting average, 3.68 ERA, outscored opponents by seven runs
Tigers: 4-6, .202 batting average, 5.44 ERA, outscored by 13 runs
INJURIES: Reds: Luke Maile: 10-Day IL (back), Emilio Pagan: 60-Day IL (lat), Nick Lodolo: 15-Day IL (finger), TJ Friedl: 10-Day IL (hamstring), Christian Encarnacion-Strand: 60-Day IL (hand), Brandon Williamson: 60-Day IL (shoulder), Ian Gibaut: 60-Day IL (forearm), Tejay Antone: 60-Day IL (elbow), Matt McLain: 60-Day IL (shoulder)
Tigers: Casey Mize: 15-Day IL (hamstring), Javier Baez: 10-Day IL (spine), Kerry Carpenter: 10-Day IL (spine), Sawyer Gipson-Long: 60-Day IL (groin)
Tigers
@
Reds
(41-48)
1:40 PM
Great American Ball Park
(42-47)
Tarik Skubal
LHP
9-3, 2.45 ERA, 119 SO
Graham Ashcraft
RHP
5-4, 5.45 ERA, 55 SO
DET Lineup
CIN Lineup
Matt Vierling (R) LF
Colt Keith (L) 2B
Mark Canha (R) 1B
Riley Greene (L) DH
Wenceel Pérez (S) RF
Gio Urshela (R) 3B
Zach McKinstry (L) SS
Jake Rogers (R) C
Parker Meadows (L) CF
Jonathan India (R) DH
Elly De La Cruz (S) SS
Jeimer Candelario (S) 1B
Spencer Steer (R) LF
Noelvi Marte (R) 3B
Santiago Espinal (R) 2B
Austin Wynns (R) C
Will Benson (L) RF
Blake Dunn (R) CF
3 comments
have to win 6 of 7 to even have a winning homestand. gut punch.
TRADE!
Embarrassing