Grading St. Louis Cardinal’s Manager Oli Marmol… Is He Really As Bad As Fans Make Him Out To Be?

23 comments

1. I think the problem is the same as with the players the FO moved over the last few years. Hindsight is 20-20, and we wound up with this guy…

2. Is this a legit question? Ask Gorman and Walker how good of a manager he is? One's still rotting in AAA because the "Coach" couldn't help him? 😖👈

3. ……..Zach Wheeler could not be reached for comment. 😑👈

4. As I have asked before if you are a GM / POBO for a origination would you hire him.
   I would not and when he loses this one I doubt he gets another managers job

5. People don’t like Marmol because they thought either Pujols or Molina was going to get the job!

6. Is it Oli or the players.
   The Cards have seemed to lose the winning attitude.
   2022 seems to be the last time that the Cards enjoyed winning.

7. Oli is worse then a little league coach

8. I believe you have the take on Marmol exactly right. Any manager that gets the team to overachieve shouldn't be criticized this harshly, all managers screw up at points. I think this will be another Cardinals goof if they let Marmol go if they are trajecting upward.

9. Oli will be here as long as Mo is I think they Dropped the ball Could have fired him and Hired Franconia

10. Good, bad, or average, he was a Mo man, and it's time to move on from that philosophy. You are right. The reset started last year, and I wanted to trade Goldschmidt because it was the last chance to get something for him. I wanted to keep O'Neill unless we got Sale, but what does Cardinal Nation know. Ownership has made clear that we need to be endlessly patient and keep coming… or else. Trade stars, but get better than Robertson/Santos.

11. F-

12. You asked "Why" I believe he's not a good coach? I'll counter that with two questions……Name me 3 things this guy has done in the last two year's that's made this club better? It's evident he can't motivate his players?…….And if he's all that and a bag of chips……Why did they bring Descalso in to hold his hand? 🤣 You'll have to excuse me now. I have to clean up the beverage I just spit out over the LaRussa comparison. 😖👈

13. Ok ok I will change my grade of oli from I for idiot to G for garbage he ridicules and embarrasses players and continues to make wrong calls. He doesn't know how to manage bullpen every so-called star player he's had performed poorly, and the supposedly upcoming star players haven't performed that great either, which I say is a being prepared problem for each game and that falls directly on oli imo

14. I don’t know solo personally or what he’s like when it comes to running a team. All I do know is a team that included some top tier talent failed to coalesce into anything competitive for two straight seasons. Meanwhile, the hitter he all but drove out of town hit 30 home runs for Boston.
    The clubhouse needs a leader that can rally the troops and understands the culture. Bring in Skip Schumaker or give the job to Stubby Clapp ho managed the AAA Cards to back to back championship titles.

15. Keeping Marmol is settling. Great executives replace managers, not because they deserve it, but because someone better is available. Trading up is the hallmark of championship orgs. Marmol does not deserve to be replaced. But Marmol is not the best available. We've all broke up with a girl that was a great friend but just wasn't the one. You'd never just marry her because she's done nothing wrong. Life is full of these examples. Oli is ok. But is "ok" what we're here for. If so, post season success is not happening.

16. JD, I've been indifferent towards Oli from day one. Nothing personal. I value veteran leadership and admire the model the SF Giants have followed for many years now.

    As you may have seen me post before, the youngest MLB manager to win a World Series this millennium is 42, and the median age is 55. After running off a guy who fits in that metric and just makes the playoffs in Mike Shildt, they hire the youngest guy in the league at 35, and give him a bottom-five salary.

    Rewind back to 2017 and Mozeliak was assembling some kind of analytically-based FO to get the team back to prominence. From a pure analytical standpoint, hiring Marmol was a bad business deal in many cities. In St. Louis, it was a f*cking insult. It was like taking a few steps down on the World Series contender ladder. Marmol's resume was fairly weak, and I think the disconnect between the fanbase and the FO was now evident. Even with the abundant hubris we've seen from them, surely they didn't see Marmol as the best guy to make a WS run? Surely a city this size that supports the club in the manner they do deserves a proven leader in the dugout? I thought this was an elite organization? Not anymore. Apparently, now we're doomed to Wild Card hell with a rotting developmental foundation. Don't get me started on Ballpark Village.

    So yes, Oli did show some improvement this season, but his record comparisons to Whitey and TLR are ridiculous. Whitey was helping the Mets win the WS the year we landed on the Moon. He was well-seasoned by the time he got here, as was TLR. Oli has shown questionable leadership and communication skills, and he has played a part in the DeWitt/Mozeliak dysfunctional element plaguing this franchise. Even this weird transition with Mozeliak and Bloom wreaks of dysfunction. If Mo and Oli were gone, Bloom had his new GM, Francona or Skip, Holliday, and Chris Carpenter were in the dugout, 2025 would be a new beginning the entire region would embrace. No can do. Apparently, the organization was neglected to the point that even experienced Bloom needed another entire year to help fix it before taking over, and some of the star-level talent on the roster will be traded as a result. That's an embarrassing indictment indeed.

17. Hey JD;

    The team won 83 games in spite of the injuries that beset the outfielders and the offense lack of hitting.

    Their +- run differential as reported by Bernie Miklasz should have only had them winning 76 games.

    So with those wheels going flat, Marmol, as you said, did a pretty good job.

    I’d like to see Marmol given a chance to manage the club under Chaim Bloom with an intact roster. I think that’s fair.

    Winning 83 games with a lineup that could not hit, “especially” with RISP from your 3/4 hitters is not the managers fault.

    I think your grade of B is a fair grade.

    Good show JD!! 👏 😊

18. Main problem was hitting with RISP, Oli can't hit I dont blame him for that. My problem with Oli is an analytics first approach, HATE IT

19. I agree JD. How would you like to be Oli where you have highly paid veterans grossly underachieving and a FO that has let the foundation crumble and can’t evaluate talent or develop it and who’s answer is to cut payroll. This team can keep payroll similar to try to remain competitive in a bad division. DeWitt broke it why should the fans have to pay to fix it by having a lot less payroll to sign players.

20. JD you've touched on some of Marmol's disapproval as a manager. Things like leaving a slumping Goldy and Nado in the 3 – 4 slots. Which brings up the front office gripe of analytics based approach.

21. F. Worst manager in baseball.

22. JD, Sparky Anderson was 35 or so when he was named Manager of the Reds. I'd say age doesn't matter very much, given Sparky's career. Why say Marmol was 35 when he replaced Shildt, like that's a negative? Some unknowledgeable fans channel into that excuse and it's wrong.
    Marmol was a successful Minor league Manager. He earned a promotion to 1B coach and then bench coach in StL under Shildt, based on his work at the MLB level. He won a Division title his first season as Manager after Shildt was let go.
    All Managers do better when they have a good roster than they'll do when the roster they're given is not good. The "roller-coaster" since that 1st season is completely the fault of Mozeliak, not Marmol.
    And the Stat people measure Marmol's performance better as Manager of the Cardinals than Counsell did as Manager of the Cubs in 2024, even if both teams ended the season with the same record.
    Marmol is far better than some fans give him credit. He should stay on the job for at least a couple of seasons after Mo retires, so people can see Marmol loose from the Mo-necktie he has been forced to wear. Truthfully, if I was Marmol, this off-season I'd seek another open Manager job in MLB for 2025 and resign the StL job. Why sit here and risk Bloom unable to do the POBO job any better than he did in Boston? Get out now.

23. JD, a piece of advice: you have credibility in accessing baseball talent. Stick with that. You have zero credibility in accessing management. It doesn’t matter if it’s baseball, business, or any other activity where getting the best from your people is required, the only stat that matters in baseball is did he win? Oli gets a F grade.