"What I was wondering is whether they value things that can't be seen in the data. There are things that are not just data. How do they move your emotions? Your sensibilities, etc. In modern baseball, you become so tied down by data that your sensibilities disappear. You have to think for yourself and act."

Ichiro emphasized, "A good pitcher rarely throws the ball in a spot where the batter can hit it. Technique should take priority." He added, "Strike or ball doesn't matter. If you think it can be hit, then it's a strike."

https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/a7d9ed58b53f3edc352541d335e397170116e4cd

18 comments

  1. Conspiracy time: Ichiro wants the younger generation to ignore data so they don’t realize he’s overrated 

    Edit: Dick Allen was a better hitter than Ichiro

  2. Generational talents usually dislike analytics driven sport since they didn’t need it. Nothing new.

  3. Interestingly, Theo Epstein said this was the big takeaway between his Boston tenure and the Cubs run – that stats are important, but the personalities in the clubhouse are just as big a deal.

  4. Many on both sides miss the mark in these discussions.

    Data and analytics are NOT the end all and be all.

    Ignoring data and analytics isn’t the answer either.

    It’s about balance, picking and choosing.

    I’ve read quotes in years past of a good hitter who didn’t study, didn’t watch film, he said he sees the ball and he swings at it.

    Well, we all know many batters are looking for a certain pitch, in a certain location at certain points in an at bat.

    Studying the opposing pitchers to learn about what they throw and when in the count they throw it can help a hitter.

    A player shouldn’t just ignore date and analytics and they also should not ONLY use data and analytics either.

    same with managers.

    I hate the front office types in most teams as they only want the manager and teams to follow the data. To me, that is wrong.

    To me, it’s also wrong to never use the data and analytics either.

    Even the very best players, from Ichiro, to Ohtani, to Judge, to Soto can learn some things from the data. No, they don’t need to go overboard with it, but it should be used sometimes.

    To me, both are needed, in moderation.

    As a hitter, it’s really good to know what a pitcher goes to when he has a two strike count on you.

    As a hitter, it’s really good to know what a pitcher usually goes to when there are runners on in scoring position vs. no runners on.

    And a hitter HAS to know what the book is on him too. If he can’t get to high heat, teams will know this and go after him there. Well, he better listen to the data guys on the team, look at his hitting charts and hitting maps to see what he hits well and doesn’t and not just overall, but for each pitcher.

    Take the info in and then just go play. Don’t let the info run you though. Prepare and then go play.

  7. I cannot wait for the anti-moneyball movie we get in a few years where there’s a big dramatic moment as the guy who posted horrible stats is shown laughing and then absolutely destroys a baseball because he’s focused, he’s having fun, and wouldn’t shock some people if he’s a dark horse for comeback player of the year.

  8. MODERN BASEBALL REFERENCED.

    IT’S BEEN THREE WHOLE YEARS OF ME THINKING ABOUT YOU EVERYDAY

  10. All analytics serves to do is to streamline the process of knowing your opponents weaknesses, and maximizing your own strengths. People think it’s even realistic to sacrifice the human element of baseball for the sake of analytics. How many times this year has that even come up as an issue? None that I can recall. I can only recall it serving the Dodgers perfectly as they cruised their way to a WS.

  12. I understood this to mean players shouldn’t use analytics as a cheat code in their development. They should follow their own path in an organic, experiential way that is particular to the player, and not build their game around what data says.

    Maybe that manifests itself as like learning to truly “handle a bat” Ichiro-style vs robotically chasing exit velocities as a youth. Or developing a “feel” for pitching vs being a driveline created stuff merchant.

    And also what’s been said already about chemistry as well that can’t be quantified.

    I am probably totally wrong but that’s the impression I got at least.

  13. Well, he got first hand experience watching the over reliance on analytics with the Mariners for the last few years. When they fired Servais and brought in Dan Wilson and Edgar, they both emphasized simplifying the batting approach and not relying only on analytics. There are definitely merits to monitoring analytics and advanced metrics and using it to your advantage, but getting stuck in exit velocity and barrel rate and BABIP doesn’t make up for looking at middle/middle for a called strike three. Amen to old school ball players and calling it like it is!

  15. Not biased at all but it makes sense. Feel like we’ve been slowly seeing a grumbling narrative of “put the iPads away” on the rise. Mariners are a good example of a team that, from reports, were blindly beholden to the analytics to the point of getting in our own players head and fucking up their natural talent. At a certain point these guys are still jocks who swing stick good.

  17. I look at a couple of analytics, and understand them, but i really dont like using them, baseball is so much simpler than analytics make it…

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